S3 Series

Well it didn't quite go according to plan..however I think we hurt them and it was a pretty intense fight over Pearl Harbor...the ack WAS intense.

Thanks all for your effort..constructive criticism part:

Hawk- we needed your Vals to turn fight to allow the zekes a chance to kill the fighters...that didn't happen. I saw only waggaa and Markpc (kudos!!)make good dive bomb attacks ..the other attacks were shallow glide bombings. The shallow attacks allowed the medium AAA to track you all the way in...and the glide bombing was less accurate.

AE- you guys were direct support for the NS/RCAF SEAD group..but you guys were at 34k+ when the bombers were at 10k.

352nd- we were partially spread out between F11 and the buff group we should have pulled back closer to the buffs when 4th was chasing P40s

4th- I don't remember ..but I think you guys got pulled away by some scouts(?)...and managed to splash some as well. I think you were almost back to the buffs when the P40s hit.

NS/RCAF- good work on the 2nd sortie and to DEW for coordinating the strikes on the US bases <S>

The P40s were caught out of position to the west and NW of Pearl ..I think we really fooled them with the end around SW attack. If we had had 3 more minutes the Vals would have been in their dives.... but alas...the difference a few minutes can make in a battle.

Once the fight got below 10k or so it was pretty much over the US as they couldn't get away from us....and we managed to leave them with ~13-15 planes after our strike.


After we RTBd we went back with the 2(?) surving Vals to F4 and zekes with bombs and began closing bases and trying to draw the US out. Managed a small battle near 25 but the US managed to land and exit and call it a night.

All in all it was a fun night and no we didn't sink any battle ships but there was a lot of damage done all over.

<S>!

Jman,

I can't speak for the others, but I was turn fighting after I dropped and died in the process.

Attack:



Splash 1:

Hawk..I posted to turn fight when the fighters jumped you and to not trust your gunners...the vals drove straight in to the target...

By flying strait and level the P40s retained E and the advantage...the zekes couldn't catch them. If you had turned when the first fighter dove in...well I don't know what would have happened... but straight and level was not the tactic against the P40s...

<S>

Looking at the S6, the dive bombers did very well actually.
http://www.errthum.com/troy/warbirds/s6/bdadetails.php?series=TTT&frame=4

The dive bombers hit 9 boats! Maybe most were near misses or the (1) 250Kg bomb was just too small but I still think that's pretty dang good. Wish some would have sunk!

--

Great to hear of 9 hits from all that hard work.

(S)s buffs

juice

Gezzzz
JMAN

I for one had no choice in what I did! I'm a want-to- be BUFF jock--not a fighter jock. I saw no chance to TURN and fight!
To me the buffs were nothing but BAIT!
Maybe we should have had a few more fighter Aces with us--u think?

The above is just part of my Constructive criticism

All I can tell you JMAN..is I discord about 20 minutes into the frame ..The next in command discord. Right after I did so rest of squad was left to their own accord. Since. All throughout you're planning you never once said any thing about our roll in the frame. N they was at a loss....we was like totally invisible to you....you completely ignored us in any posting.and wasn't mentioned once. .wasn't in til 2 minutes til roll you attached us to any orders....
You was to. Busy worring about the 4th N 352.. to give a cap about us...then you want to chastise us...you're a wonderfully helpful in keeping up good relations...
Can't say what I really want to at this point..

Jman,

I am really surprised at your post. For one thing, I was jumped by the 23rd and lost most my flight controls and leaking fuel. I know I couldn't turn with the P-40s, I still managed to get my bombs out and did what I could in the fight. So I am lost for words on this. I never once told you your plan was a bad one. I always support the Frame CO in what they want to do because I know how difficult it is being in the big seat. We are buff pilots, not fighter jocks, still you wanted it and we did our best to perform it.

Sorry we didn't live up to your expectations.

Please say what you want...I have thick skin..
However if you note on Tue the 14th "six" minutes after you posted I posted initial thoughts:

SEAD group-
RCAF..NS...and AE/100th.
A6M with bombs...would like maybe 1 from ns and RCAF to take a d3a1. Primary target is 2x88 on west side of f11 Ewa...secondary is 40mm on ne side and 2x40mm at f9.
Make them think Ewa is the target..

I would like a d3a1 or two with you and its ai to aid in the deception. If any US fighter sees ONE val then that will draw the US to you.

Strike group-
The buffs and 4th and 352.
Following you by about 3-5 minutes... At alt of maybe 10-12 k. Once we approach battleship row the buffs will launch ai at about 30 sec intervals. Buffs pick out ships and attack...egress is to west over land north of Ewa. Beware of limited ack if sead group doesn't get it knocked out..

As a reminder... The buffs dont have to tuck in tight on Ingres if we are jumped inbound. I EXPECT you to turn fight. Once the p40 slows down its vulnerable. Same for egress..you are to turn fight to the west if engaged and the fighters will come to you.

Ok...comments...."

You never replied to anything else that was posted in the planning thread

From that point on the NS/RCAF/AE/100th was identified as the SEAD group and were mentioned multiple times throughout the thread after that...the NS/RCAF seemed to know what to do on Sunday night....why didn't your group? Leadership failure? Would you prefer me to create a 5 paragraph order for you next time?




From the planning thread:
"In no way shape or form do I want the Vals if spotted to tuck in and let otto work."

"ALL BUFFS will turn fight if attacked...do NOT trust your gunner. Get the US fighters turning that is their weakness... Beware if any P36s show up...not sure if they will as we closed F12 BUT they CAN turn with Zeke....ALMOST ..so be aware you will have to pull harder if one gets behind you. You probably wont get away from him so will need a wing man to shoot him off your six."

If you watch this video from zinhawk.....the first 60 seconds show the effect of staying straight and level when attacked. I beg to differ but the Val CAN turn with a P40....by not turning you sealed your death warrant.






<S> gofly <S>
Buffs are always bait in one form or another..it depends on which side of the S3 you are on.

My point was the moment you had cons in on the Vals the vals should have been turning and twisting. If you had done that the P40s have two choices:
1..blow the shot and zoom past/extend
2. turn with you while losing E

The result of either 1 or 2 happening is the Zeros are now on the P40s.....

However that didn't' happen so you and the p40s continued in the same direction/speed making it harder for the escorts to intercept/block the P40s.

I'm sorry if I offended anyone but I called it like I saw it... I said from MONDAY that the Vals were to turn when jumped...no matter what. That didn't happen... I'm sorry you guys were getting shot up but I had planned on you turning as well.

Guys,
After a successful series, why is the forum getting so hostel? I figured after Frame 2 issues, we would not continue bitching about each other.

This is a game that everyone does their best in. period. Fighter pilots fly like fighter pilots and buff guys fly like buff guys. If you have any questions about it watch dobs video of him killing me and I was in a zero. Ask tracer, who tried many times to get me better at air-air to no avail. If Juice was flying a Kate, he would shoot me down in a zero even without front guns!

To expect any of us Buff guys to last more than 15 seconds against any of the fighters is just not going to happen. Usually, when I do look behind me (which isn't very often) when I see a dot, its like "whats that behi.........BOOM".

The biggest problem in the frame, and I do it every time I CO, is having the CO flying. It is impossible to keep track of everything going on when trying to fly. I am not saying not to do it because I always will, but it makes things much harder.

As soon as the SEED attack was canceled, the buff's should have started circling way south until the fighters could get to F14. Most of the fighters got tied up west or south of the island. The 352nd/4th were killing folks west of the island, the RCAF/NS were pulled back south to help our Vals that goy jumped by some P-40's and the AE/100 were left alone above the buff's. It was just a bad set-up, one that we repeated Frame 2. Lots of buff's no fighters.

It was no ones fault, except for mine maybe. I saw what was happening and should have told hawk to circle back and wait. I actually was thinking about it but didn't.

We ALL need to stop flaming the boards. even if they are correct observations or not, or just someones opinion. it does NO GOOD except to make others feel resentful and not want to lead, CO or even fly.

Was a fun series, please lets keep it that way.

Dave