S3 Series

Dobs, then Dawger needs to apologize to Muskyzz for this stupid statement.

Dobs, just so we are clear, I KNOW the 475th, including Dawger, tried their hardest! You guys always do. You guys wanted to accomplish a goal of getting the high guys down and keeping the northern guys out of the fight.

All I am saying is that wasn't the "plan". I was hoping if the north was clear they would be suspicious of a north strike and leave 10 or so planes up there. I wanted the northern US guys to come down as we were leaving and have them chasing us over the water so they cant easily re-base. When you guys went through F2, they all followed you. All 40 of them ended up at Pearl.

Another problem I see from your post and Sasquatch post, there were only 12 ((4) 23rd and (8) 475th) of you!!!!! I was expecting the 22 from the table! where was everyone? having 1/2 the escorts there really throws a monkey wrench into plans.




No one owes anyone anything. We just all need to be more tolerant and remember this is a game. We all are doing our best to accomplish a goal. Everyone has different goals.

This 1/2 of the series is done. we will have to see how the second half goes.

Just to add my Nickel's worth (no pennies in Canada now) I have CO'd over 60 frames and played for over 15 years (I started in Frame 2 of the First S3) and except when Thor was posting I have never seen such blatant condemnation of CO or bomber's plans. Over the years we have had some really bad plans that looked good on paper and some plans that looked iffy and worked like a charm. You need to remember that the guys on the other side can do things that either work into your plans or not.

Suggestions are always appreciated by any CO, but sometimes the CO sees things differently and once the orders are finalized that should be the end of the issue. I am sure when the 475th is COing a frame they will get suggestions, but as the CO, it is their call.

Let's all take a chill pill and put this unfortunate incident behind us and try to keep things on a civil level in the future.

Posted Saturday Morning in the orders thread



Posted later Saturday in the same thread.



No response, no indication the Frame CO even read it.

We did exactly what we said we were going to do. The Frame CO designated the 475FG as southern group fighter CO and I posted our intentions and exactly WHY we were going to do what we did.

Once we encountered 25+ enemy fighters I knew we had two choices, turn tail and let them slaughter the bombers or sacrifice MY group so that maybe we could distract them long enough, which is what we did.

I expressed my misgivings with the planned strike, advising that a sweep in force prior to any strike even took off would be ideal. Second choice was for the strike to be on the deck to remove the enemy dive advantage where CLOSE escort could pin the enemy on the deck. Third choice was an ingress above 25K to take the enemy out of their best operational envelope.

None of those things were entertained.

And now you are upset with me because I posted the unvarnished truth in the AAR.

What is the point of posting a plan or posting AAR's?

Is this a knitting circle or a competitive game?

We got our asses kicked very predictably and you are mad at the guy with the temerity to say what everyone else in a fighter was thinking.

I somehow suspect the strike group WONT be at 15,000 in frame 4.

[quote="MuskieZZ ]

Another problem I see from your post and Sasquatch post, there were only 12 ((4) 23rd and (8) 475th) of you!!!!! I was expecting the 22 from the table! where was everyone? having 1/2 the escorts there really throws a monkey wrench into plans.
[/quote]

Fwiw the 23rd has had 11-12 regulars (13 once ) show, hence the 2 step designation.

Guys, lets ALL give it a rest.

What should have happened is I should have gotten Dawger and Dobs on TS after dobs raised the concern and talked about it and came to a mutual decision. I have a terrible time getting on the boards Friday afternoons through Sunday afternoon. Every frame I CO I like to get orders up by Thursday to give some time for a response. I am usually working out of town during the week so when I get home I do fam. stuff on the weekends.

It is over, done, and JUST A GAME. We will do better next time.

sorry if I stirred the pot.

In the meantime, the 475th is considering a "Go Fund Me" page to help raise funds for an all expense paid trip to attend Dale Carnegie's "how to win friends and influence people" seminars. The seminars are usually a 2 day event. We're hoping to raise enough funds to pay for an entire week. Once the funds are raised, we will um... draw straws to see which one of us gets to attend Dobs usually manages to win the good prizes during our quarterly rah-rah meetings, We'll see how it goes this time around

Great job on closing 2 & 8 late in the frame. -S's to Swanee who I think took down at least 3, maybe 4 bad guys, and a huge -S to Dolch for achieving ACE status, and living to tell about it!!!

Thanks for taking the big chair MuskieZZ, and with any luck at all.... we'll see you in frame 3 & 4!

-S's

Thank it is more like "I'll SHOW YOU":

Why? The S3 title banner advertises "Sixteen years of war" I have flown the first two or so years of it and the last four. Never has there been a demand for more than one CO per frame. What is so special about you guys that you WANT 2 COs per frame and why should the rest comply?


Sure as you wish!

He's a perfect asshole who does not care about teamwork, demands respect while dishing out disrespect all the time and abandons the bomber group for a few minutes of fighter glory. He has claimed in the past that he'd much rather let the bomber group die than speak up early when the orders are out. So we all know where he stands.

And BTW. One Rotten Apple does spoil the bunch. As much as I respect you and dazed who have been trying to tone this conversation down with your excuses and "sweet" interpretations, I for one will inform my squad to not expect any help from the 475th FG if you are ever assigned to escort us.



First of all, he suggested that the bombers be either at 25k or on the deck. At 25K you would have met the enemy co-alt and provide the same excuse, oh they dove away and then came back up with their superior climbing power etc. On the deck the ack would kill us and you would have never come met the bombers. we saw this Frame 1 and in the previous series so it was not as if he was giving any viable options.


The brave KoN fighters ALWAYS fly close escort and have been doing a wonderful job! ~S~ KoN Fighters.


The whole sweep thing has not worked, they will simply avoid the sweep till they find the bombers
We just don't have enough bomber pilots to hit multiple targets at once. This is something everyone should be aware of and plan accordingly.


Again the only choice you guys (yes I'm bunching the apples together now) gave us was 25K or On Deck. Both were out of the question.




Again what "Fighter CO"? As far as we ALL knew each frame has 1 CO.

~S~ to all who worked as a team
-noflyz

My video of us "not supporting" the bombers.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=npyjfuuQWpM

And you are correct, there is absolutely no need for better planning by the bombers. As we saw in BBD, when the opposition executes well, the bombers settings get revised to keep them alive.

Unfortunately, Jabo can't do that this series.

See you at 15K in frame 4 and I hope every fighter is embedded in the closest possible escort.