S3 Series

No sakai it is the same old question.That's why I'm trying towork this out.
Back in the ..bcnu must have made some agreement with the Real 4th and is probably why daddy formed the 31st.
That is only my opinion, not fact as I know it. My job is to keep my guys flying and in vthe S 3 community.

Let me elaborate a bit on what Pappy said.....

They do go hand in hand. Bill has been professional enough to stay out of the switching sides issue until somebody....some squad....some Janitor put pressure on him. Bill has a business to run "IEN" and wants the S3 to be successful so his business Warbirds can remain profitable. So Bill requested the 4th to switch sides and we considered it but reached the conclusion that we can not based on a charter that was written and agreed upon with the real 4th Fg a long time ago. In fact Pappy is contacting the 4th Fg Association as He has described above.

However the last time we flew the back to back series we did fly LW and we lost a great 4thmen to another squad because of this very issue.

So Pappy and I believe its in the best interest of the 4th Fg and S3 Community to not switch sides because it may blow up the 4th Fg. I am getting more e-mails from 4thmen who will NOT fly Axis and my conclusion is they will leave. I am also getting a few e-mails from those who will switch but not that many.

So we cannot take that chance at this time and must protect the integrity upon which the virtual 4th Fg was founded to keep our guys flying as Pappy stated.

We had hoped that the people who really have a problem with switching would speak up so we can air this out. Perhaps there is enough information posted above that you can understand the situation the virtual 4th Fg is in based on our Charter and that the majority of the virtual 4th Fg joined the squad because we fly Allied.

-lights out

Whoa, hang on a sec. ( raises hand) that may have been me, but talk about things getting taken out of context.........
I actually received a unsolicited e-mail from Bill asking about the 23rd and any problems we may be having. ( this is just a week or two before Hitman came back)
In response to Bill I put forward the notion that if the 4th would put themselves into a rotation like the rest of the groups, that it would give Jabo a lot more choices in dividing up sides in any given s3 scenario and if this was a possibility. I felt that the 4th flying only allied sides has inadvertently placed the 23rd and 352 on opposite sides for just about every series and that it has not been healthy for either of our groups in building any kind of community.
I never...heard back from him.......and let it go. Hitman came back, I dropped him a line to let him know what had transpired......which really....nothing had.
It was just a possibility I put forth.....in response....to...Bill's e-mail
I know nothing of any agreement between the 4th Fg and the 4th Fg assc.. Never, in my wildest dreams would I EVEN consider Bill resigning. Never, would I consider the 4th getting preferential treatment,unless you consider the "we only fly allied" thing preferential. I do NOT have a problem with the 4th.
If Bill responded to me that I needed to contact someone else about this.....I certainly would have. I am surprised by all this.....truly I am.
It was....just a question.
So..........I have no idea how this could have transpired like this.......mountains and molehills I reckon
So......am I to be drawn and quartered, or only tortured slowly over a roasting fire?
The entire community certainly has my deepest apologies for what I truly call a misunderstanding.
I did it on my own, do not hold the 23rd responsible.....the group did not even know I asked the question.
<S>

Sleepy.....I respect you and your integrity, as well as the big task you've undertaken for this comminity.
The business about the 4rth flying Allied only came about long before I joined the squad. I only came aboard while Knife and harm were
in command. The first thing we all read was the principle of the 4th, which was "supposedly" set up with agreement with the "real" 4th.
As a result, most of the pilots we recruit come in with that expectation. All I am trying to do is keep the faith and the group together.
I can't help it if people don't, or won't understand, ii can only try my best to keep the 4th together and hopefully give a good representation of us.

PS: it was brought to me by WLDBIL in a private conversation and I told him I would talk to the group and to the 4th FG Association....which I did.
As for the "Virtual"4th, I feel it would not be in the best interest of Warbirds to break it up, but that's just what would happen. He gave me the impression that we would cause the demise of the S3 community and therefore Warbirds. Which is why I started this thread. I don't believe it would kill the S 3 community, but it might
cause the break up of the 4th. Am I right in thinking that's why daddy quit and set up the 31st? Or am I all wet. I've only been around here since 2004.

no idea about daddy and the 31st. They were around before I came on board.
I would have no wish at all to suggest a group break up, however, I would point out where would the s3 be if everyone adopted a policy of always flying their own ride?
What if no one agreed to switch sides?
For one group to adopt this policy....well...it places a heavier burden on the rest of the community and severely hampers (IMHO) Jabo's ability to choose up sides.
It has inadvertently in this case placed the 352nd and the 23rd always opposite one another. Part of building any kind of community means being able to build some kind of rapport with each other and this is accomplished partly by flying both WITH other groups and AGAINST them.
Now I realize, that at this point I may be speaking out of turn for the 23rd. When this conversation started, chunky had retired, hitman was on deployment and wilz and I were running the group as best we could under the circumstances.
Hitman is back now and it is more his place to say, but I guess I started this dance.
Will it break up the s3? I certainly hope not, nor wish it to. Nor do I wish to lose the 4th.
Do you really understand the burden this has placed on the rest of us? Look at the match ups. Is there any group here that would look forward to their group having to go head to head with the 352nd every single series? Is this a good thing?
On a side note.....I fail to see what Daddy has to do with any of this....31st is gone, retired. Daddy left and,columbo,scarpo.vonmac,goebel,shroud,tahoe,yamon all gone and left more or less at same time.
the 23rd is NOT the 31st.....I think its a great group, a really good group....but ...its not the 31st. They put up over 20 pilots to 25 pilots a frame...the 23rd musters 13 to 16 on a good night.
(sigh) I dunno guys...I really don't.
I know that the s3's are the lifeblood of Warbirds, and perhaps the only thing many of us stick around for. My sole desire is to keep it going, make it better if I can, consider the issues and work it.
Whether you see this issue as a real one or not........it feels VERY real to the 23rd.......I believe .....our orders never change.......every frame.....its wearing thin.....mighty thin.
But, if you guys cannot/willnot be placed in the same rotation as the rest of the community.......then let it be so.
Times change, and I will deal with it....and when I cannot, then, well, we will deal with it.
HItman is back now, and perhaps its something he feels different about for the group.
I have spoken out of turn. Its his place to say now....not mine.
I'm sorry for even bringing it up.

Salute!

Whoa! One day after getting home from TDY and this thread.

Some background: I have to admit that I personally know Wild Bill, and we both wear the same ring from the Blue Zoo. He was about 6 years behind me, and he flew the A-37 in the USAF Reserve, so we had a great connect there. So we met last two rejoins, and my wife and I had a great dinner with him and his charming wife in Charleston this spring. So I may be prejudiced. Hell, I even have his cell phone number coded on my iPhone. For the facts above, I do not use my "connection" to ask for favors or anything. It's the honorable thing and no small amount of integrity on both of us.

Wild Bill did the honorable thing. His withdrawal was essential to prevent folks from thinking that the 4th was getting preferential treatment. Fer chrissakes, he's the guy that keeps us all flying the sim and especially the S3.

I would like to see him rotate amongst the squads and see their differences and procedures and meet the folks. Do I hear a "second the motion"?

Nomads have always preferred Allied, but we know that we must have balance in the S3. In fact, ole Gums flew Axis in the very first S3 - Three Days in August. Was a hundred years ago, I forget how many years. Beqver was there, as well, and prolly shot my Ju-88 from under my seat, heh heh. Because we rotate, we have met some really neat troops and they get to meet we vagabond Nomads.

I have no problem with the 4th position about flying Allied. I would rather see the 4th rotate now and then, but that's their call.

Good to see this thread, and I salute Pappy for starting it, and all the good comments.

From the Nomads at Geriatric park......

Gums...

Welcome to the "JOKER" club WildBil!
That's basically what I do. See who is doing what then tag along with a group.

Why would anyone pick on the 4th wanting to fly Allied all the time? There are dedicated Axis squads but I don't hear anything about them not flying allied.

Bill, please do not resign from flying. I have seen a few posts about you rotating through groups each series to keep flying, you would be welcome to fly with RCAF 127 Wing for a series. In fact, I think everyone would appreciate it. We could reminisce about the Kill Bill nights in the main, when I came up under you as you were about to execute a Hammerhead turn.

well that sucks ...

not sure what terms bill and I are on at this point, and in this case it doesn't matter.

IMO people being made to feel that leaving the s3 or a squad is what is required for peace in the community ...

that is pretty shitty,

condolences to the 4th and WBS ...

++S++

t

on a side note, not sure I feel very good about people hating to fly axis so much that they are willing to resort to drama about it.

FWIW at this specific time there are no "dedicated axis" squads other than by name. Because of the player base there are far more "allied" squads than "axis". If numbers were reversed there would be Axis squads flying Allied. It is tough to commit players to the dark side for many reasons, (heritage, pride, preference) but to each their own.

II./JG 77 has never had any concerns about the 4th and maybe because we are new, it makes no difference who flies what. The objective remains the same, victory. It is unfortunate that Wild Bill chose to resign, but the reasons are understandable. We like everyone else wish for his continued presence in the S3.