BOMBER COMMAND PLANNING_ FRAME 2

bollok · **Joined:** Wed Nov 13, 2013 4:45 am **Posts:** 209

Gentlemen,

How many buffs do you see?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3RJpgG91Oyg

Lets try a wider (shallow) spread, make it more difficult for them to make HO attacks.

MuskieZZ · **Posted:** Tue Dec 09, 2014 12:49 am

We must include tac turns! that is the only way to stop the head on's IMO.

I believe that was my mistake not to include them.

Sasquatch · **Joined:** Sat Nov 09, 2013 12:29 am **Posts:** 230

MuskieZZ wrote:

We must include tac turns! that is the only way to stop the head on's IMO.

I believe that was my mistake not to include them.

^^ agree 100%. You have someone watching the flight path on dar and they pretty much know about WHERE we have to go. Throwing in some small turns (even 15-20 degrees) can really throw off a good intercept making a perfect HO pass into a much tougher deflection shot.

noflyz · **Joined:** Thu Nov 21, 2013 10:58 pm **Posts:** 341

Just a couple of suggestions.

1. UMM & NS take the lead bomber group this time. I suggest we alternate this all series. Clearly the front group takes the brunt of the enemy assault it's only fair that we alternate this role.
2. Let's lift off the same field and Lets go to the same target(s). The 40 mile separation only means a 10 minute separation at the most. We can split the fighter cover 3:2, most with the forward group. This is going to force the enemy to go past the initial group and split up when they see 2 groups in pursuit on the DAR.

dewolf · **Joined:** Sat Nov 09, 2013 7:15 am **Posts:** 917

jabo wrote:

NOTES
3 - Because the AI mbls are so hard to coordinate with the players the rules are changed slightly to allow all the players to fly together as a lead box and the AI to pick up the rear. This way if the AI start to go off it will simulate the fractured tail of the bomber stream. Rules adjusted to indicate this.
4 - AI B17Gs seem quite fragile but there is some improvement coming down the pipe on the damage models. Obviously the weapons and tactics of the AI mbls were set too low and will be increased and their formations will be closer together to help improve their survival. Look for two formations of 6 flying close together with distance between other similar formations. Continue to conduct high speed off angle attacks or those deadly HOs.
5 - some confusion on the player AI wingman setting. Set it to d1 which is 100 yrds. I was saying 300ft but that ended it up as D3. Its feet in the mbls and yards in the player box. My mistake.

10. Allied Bombers - the Allies will have a lead box of player bombers with one AI wingman and a trail box composed of AI mbls. As with everything WBs some allowance has to be made for genuine errors during play by AI mbls. But for planning purposes this is what missions must be designed around. The CM will try and get the AI to follow the exact dtf designed by the bomber lead so the two boxes will act like one large bomber formation but because the AI Mbls seem to work best with the default airspeed their coordination with the player box will be limited.

11. Allied AI Bombers - to simulate the bomber stream there will be several 6 plane B17 formations flying in a vic formation in the same direction as player bombers. They will have the same hardness as player bombers as BUFFTUFF will be 1.0. There otto will be set low but a tight 6 ship formation will be difficult to attack so conduct as realistic attacks as possible on player or AI formations. We will experiment on how close AI mbls can fly to each other without excessive warping. The Allied player cannot rely on the AI bombers for anything more than slight bombing help at a target location. Bomber players will also have 1 AI wingman and this ship must be set for no closer than d1 or 100yds. Our bomber and strike squads are true professionals so we expect to see tight realistic formations.

Coolon · **Posted:** Wed Dec 10, 2014 12:12 pm

in regards to the flat wide spacing, these are my first thoughts.

When conducting a head on attack it seemed that the angle of approach was the most difficult thing to align.
Altitude is easy to modify. That said I would think that approaching a grouping as posted would make it easier to line up nose to tail to whichever bomber I could. the wide spread of targets makes any error I make easily transferred to a better aligned target.

Slashing attacks would have easier end targets to pick off rather than approaching a stacked group.

It is my opinion (without further input) that this would not be a good formation to follow.

here are some ideas showing more depth vertically.
http://www.303rdbg.com/formation.html

note:
I'm open to different options and will follow orders to the best of my ability, just trying to get the best info ahead of time.

jabo · **Joined:** Fri Nov 08, 2013 12:38 am **Posts:** 1470

I will try and get the AI bombers more spread wide than all along a conga line for repeated attacks by a smart HO 190 driver.

Hawk · **Joined:** Wed Nov 13, 2013 1:14 am **Posts:** 1047

I think we all have learned something from Frame 1. We now know what worked and what didn't and we need to capitalize on that. The ottos seem to be weak and having a spread of 300 also worked against us. Having our escorts behind us hurt as well and us buff leaders not using a zip zag route to keep the HO from happening.

I know this time around we will be better this time around and thank you Noflyz for taking the lead on this one.

MuskieZZ · **Posted:** Thu Dec 11, 2014 1:29 am

OK,
So what target? 33?
We need to make a DTF with continual tac turns. That means it is going to take longer to get to target.
Are we flying 17's or 24's?

Note: The wingmen are to be left at default spread! This should help us a lot. The default is 100yards (D1).

dewolf · **Joined:** Sat Nov 09, 2013 7:15 am **Posts:** 917

MuskieZZ wrote:

That means it is going to take longer to get to target.

Please keep in mind that this also means that you will spend more time with less fighter protection. "Takes longer" is not an expression that a P-47 pilot really likes to hear.

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