S3 Series

But today the HUD as shown above shows you the exact grid coordinates of your position (as opposed to earlier it showed feet from 0,0 which was inconvenient to convert to grid position in flight I guess) .

So what difference does it make if the map dot and icon are removed??

Essentially today there is no means of turning off the GPS so why are we discussing this??

So someone can point things like this out

~S~ Jabo San

Yes you get a grid ref in the HUD (which you can reference against the map)

Its hard to get totally lost!
No blipping GPS arrow on the map just adds more pucker.

Initial panic.. Ah im lost... i'm just not used to this!
then ok.. where does my HUD grid ref and heading place me on the map?
Am I going the right direction? Will I have enough fuel ?
Am I going to die?

The only difference is having to manually reference your directional heading and grid ref displayed in the hud against the inflight map.
There is always scope for the player to cock that up.. hehe

Its not about needing to do total navigation, just adding a human factor.

I agree totally with all of the above but I still would like to remove the grid coordinates from the HUD. Navigation is a key piece missing from our more realistic events. .vor is a reasonable approximation although it is a bit flawed from a strict viewpoint

If you are a real life aviator and the map showed reference points from 25-30K, even 15K then you would not need the HUD Coordinates. Just ask Gums, he flew in NAM and he could pick out a lot more detail there then he ever can in WB. Until such time as the ground has enough detail to be able to navigate by picking out the terrain, we need the HUD Grid Coordinates on. If you want to be realistic, turn your HUD off and don't look at the map.

Yea, Gums flew in the 'Nam and has said for years that Warbirds isn't detailed enough for navigation purposes. He is both right and wrong, but mostly wrong. We lack some man made featurest mostly we lack proper navigation maps describing terrain features in a manner useful for navigation.

I am a current pilot with a lot more hours than I care to think about and at high altitude in most terrains and the very good visibility we have is more than sufficient for navigation, especially the newer terrains.

This in combination with .vor is plenty for accurate navigation. I have been playing around with No GPS event ideas and consequently have done quite a bit of visual only navigation (referred to as pilotage) recently and find landmarks more than adequate.

This issue is more one of practice than anything else and unreasonable expectations. Instant GPS leads us to expect very precise navigation when in reality it wasn't that precise.

We don't need to navigate by looking out the window so we don't. Same thing happens in real airplanes nowadays with quite similar results. Most pilots a generation younger than me would tell me the real world from 30,000 feet is insufficient to navigate by. They are correct. One cannot navigate to today's Required Navigation Performance standard of within 1 mile of position 98% of the time by looking outside. But one can find Chicago by following the shore of Lake Michigan.

The same thing can be done in game and the availabilityof .vor to plan routes and fix positions makes a very realistic blended navigation solution combining pilotage, dead reckoning, and electronic means.

Is it more difficult than instant GPS? Certainly, but it makes S3 more challenging and adds a very historic piece of the SA puzzle to the event.

ONe that should be welcomed.

Of course. But we are not flying in the upper mid-west of the US or in RL.

Some concessions have to be made for our Terrains...and this next event is in a terrain developed before you left the first time. Its flat, washed out in color, has an unrealistic haze and was MISERABLE to fly in during the last no GPS event.

Grey or No Radar blips, fine. But no GPS arrow, forcing .vors is no fun. If you want to lobby for a no GPS event, make it on one of the newer terrains - one that has features to nav by.

Ni Yen.

....And a terrain that doesn't happen to come out as a forced DL "20 minutes" before the Event start time. Navigation by pilotage requires either a chart that shows the terrain features or EXPERIENCE flying over the area. "How do you get to the US from England?" "Turn left at Greenland" ain't hardly a precision navigation technique.

I have a No GPS event almost ready for New Guinea Terrain.

Mostly overwater navigation for the Allies as it is attacks on Rabaul, November 43.

I am not going to run it until the grid HUD goes away.

I have flown over the London -Berlin routes a few dozen times in real airplanes. In March you probably won't even see the ground but outside of major terrain features there isn't much you can use visually from high altitude.

No point in arguing this. Guys are used to the GPS and don't want to lose it. Same thing is going on in real airplanes.