S3 Series

Thought proper to put specs in here so as not to clutter up other subject forums.

Thanks for tips on getting S3 sinked flying. Worked great.

So today I went to field 122. This is a truck park with an RK bridge.
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I got identical results with the trucks. They are way beyond the Charted 200 defence points required to take them down. Once again I attacked the ( CB CARRIER ) I.E. TRUCK. Using 100kg ( 220 lb ) bombs from a LA5F. I dropped the first two single since one should be able to destroy a truck by itself. Both drops were un successful. I then proceeded to drop salvo 2, ( 9 more sorties ) Thats 10,320 hit points dropped to take down a 200 defence point target. At drop 4 the distant hut blew up from collateral pressure, on drop 6 the other of two huts blew up from collateral pressure.
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Second target at field 122 the RK bridge took an unbelievable amount of bombs before and I never did close it. Table says a B1 Bridge takes 15,000 hit points to close so I assumed the RK bridge must be similar. I had dropped about 12,000 points before quiting yesterday.

Today I reattacked the RK bridge.

First hitting mid span with two 100kg bombs from LA-5 = Result intact.
second hitting mid span with two 1000lb bombs from F4U- = Result intact.
third hit mid span with two 500 kg ( 1100 lb bombs from JU-88 = result " DESTROYED"

Un intentionaly I dropped he two 1000 kg bombs on the east span but I still got the numbers I needed. The east span remained intact.

Lesson: RK bridges in S3 arena are weaker than in main off line. It took
1032 lb from two 100 kg
5000 lb from two 1000 lb
4126 lb from two 500kg
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10,158 ( for total of 10,158 and what ever residual came from the two 1000kg bombs dropped one span down. )

Again thanks for the insight. It changed some of the odds and not some others..
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TARGET OF THE DAY ... FIELD 193..LOC 7, 1 1. ... Attacking aircraft used LA5F, 1 x 100 kg bombs with 532 lb destructive power.
This target chosen because it is an airfield that allows defencive / offensive operation by the enemy.
It is located in the southern front on the front line. This makes it easy for EA ( attack types ) to operate short distances to attack us and a recovery spot for their damaged planes.
It is a grass strip with the following targets.
1 RD Radar EM........1250 dp. This is defective and took 6 sorties of salvo 2, 100kg bombs to destroy or ( 6384 hit points to destroy it )
1 RS Radar station.. 1800 dp. This took two sorties.
3 HG Hangers..........2500 dp. This took 6 sorties each.
All other targets can be destroyed with one bomb as tested. Also can easily be straffed down though don't recommend straffing AAA as losses will be incured.
2 PA planes..............350 dp.
4 HT Huts................450 dp.
1 SM Small struture.. 400 dp.
2 40mm AAA...........300 dp.
1 88mm AAA...........400 dp.

Suggest elimination of AAA on first sortie. AAA in here is very effective and dangerous but very limited in numbers. One 40 is located in sw by lone hut and other on north edge of field. 88 is ne corner.
It is also suggested after an initial anti AAA attack by fighters that a follow on attack by bombers on Radar/ hangers be initiated for efficiency.

TARGET OF DAY FIELD 141, 7,1 8. VEHICLE DEPOT/ BRIDGE. Acft used LA5F , 100kg bombs.
This is the point of the spear. Easy quick access on southern front. We could get 9 points for closure. Most targets are attackable with fighters. Back up bomber support could finish.

Problems: If JABO isn't able to fix hardness of CARRIER CB ( TRUCKS ) vehicles no point trying to take this. Trucks of which there are three on the field take over 10,000 hit points to close each instead of the 200 each listed on the S3 chart. Thats equivilant to 10 fighters attacking with all their ordinance per target or ( 30 ) total just for the three trucks to go down. S/B 1 fighter could get all three if flown correctly.

However If these trucks fixed Its a very attackable field. Here are the stats.

WM WEAPON (HALFTRACKS) ( 9 ) 850 def pts. I found these weaker than chart called out. A single 100 kg bomb easily destroys them. Straffing very effective also.
CB CARRIER (TRUCKS) ......( 3 ) 200 def pts. ( Read the notes above ) If its not fixed its a deal breaker and this target not worth the effort. 200 def pts should make them similar to halftracks to destroy.
AD AMMO DUMP................( 2 ) 1500 def pts. Took me two sorties dropping both bombs on target to destroy each. ( these are the crate type ammo boxes not the bunkers. )
HT HUTS...........................( 4 ) 450 def pts. They go down with one bomb.
40 MM AAA.........................( 3 ) 300 def pts. These guns deadly but go down easy with one bomb.
DM BRIDGE........................( 1 ) 500 def pts. ( Three spans ) Here is a bridge fighters can kill. I was able to kill a span with 1 bomb. 500 def pts. is my guestiment as a 100kg bomb will kill it. Its not listed in the S3 chart.

Suggest: small fighter unit kill ack and what ever light targets they can. followed up by bomber to kill Ammo dump. Or very duable by large fighter squad with minimum effort
( Again: UNLESS TRUCK DEFENCE POINTS ARN'T BROUGHT IN LINE WITH S3 CHART )
Cheers
bluzoo.

UPDATE FOR P39Q EFFECTIVNESS
A. 500 lb bomb. THIS BOMB IS DEFFECTIVE. It should be putting out 1173 attack points. compared with the 1032 of two 100kg on the LA-5.
Yet when attacking the

CB CARRIER ( TRUCK ) It took 15 sorties instead of the 10 required by the LA5. In theory thats 17,595 attack points compared with 10,320 attack points for the LA5 and its 100kg bombs on same target.
Against this target the 30mm was useless. ( Remember this is a 200 defence point target. )
AD AMMO DUMPS: defence pt. 1500. 4 sorties were required to take out ammo. Thats 4692 attack points to take out a 1500 defence pt target. ( Again the 500 lber has been neutered.

All other targets went down with the 500 lber.

37 mm gun. : this gun was useless against Ammo's or Trucks. however its a very effective weapon against everything else and you have 30 rounds. All other targets died after one hit with one exception.

DM Bridge: it took 4 rounds per span to kill this bridge. The gun was very effective on this target.

LESSON: P39 extremely effective against all but harder targets. with guns and bombs. Against ammo its not so effective especialy the gun. Against trucks its a complete no go. Leave them for a much heavier hitter. Any time attacking them with this plane bombs or guns exposes you to intercept and death.

Blu,
Are you testing online in the S3 arena or offline? If offline, the damage values for terrain objects are not correct. Way off, in fact. For example you can easily straff down a weapon (tank), but it takes lots and lots of ord to kill a carrier (truck). Jabo corrected these values for online play so the trucks are relatively easy to kill and static tanks are not. If you were testing in the S3 arena, disregard
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Well please educate me.

Am going on line to S3 arena and logging in.

Then Im backing out and going off line where the map has changed to reflect the S3 arena. However im still connected to the internet for what thats worth.

Then Im doing my testing.
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1 > Shouldn't the off line arena then be reflecting the settings of the S3 arena? (its all changing to the proper colors and bases identifiers. )

I was worried by the seeming disconnect I was having with JABO. He has enough to do if my concerns arn't real or have already been corrected.

2 > Can I test in the S3 areana now. And if so will losses or scores be recorded or disconnected from the event? Hopefully.

3 > If you know of a way to test that is correct. A. how to do. B. can you go to field 141 and hit the "carrier" vehicle just off the west end of the bridge and see if you can take it down with one 100kg bomb.

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I don't mind testing this stuff.. But by nature I realy hate to be giving out bad data. We all have enough problems to deal with without me adding to them.

thanks.

Logging into and out of an arena during a game session will set field ownership, icons and (I think) otto and a few other settings to the same as the arena. I am not sure about damage values. Would need to test req'd damage before logging in (terrain default), then test afterwards. Wish I already had the answer for you, Blu. Sorry.

Good morning muzz,
Actualy got into S3 and was able to fly last night. Wasn't able to destroy the trucks then but being the S3 and having to expend exess time aquiring the target wasn't able to verify the over 10,000 hit points required to destroy these 200 defence point trucks. Note: only problem I have is with "CARRIER" vehicle. All others go down fine.

Tryed again today but some one had beat me there and already destroyed them at field 141.

If you have extra time I made a report on it under the more correct subject heading of " Hardness, CARRIER IE TRUCKS" . But the short of it was I couldn't verify due to the already destroyed status of the trucks.

One more thing if you have time. A while back two or three S3's ago we turned off .gamma for some reason that eludes me. But this realy has a negative impact on me and several of my squadies to game play in the S3's. Especialy in the Large European map and now this map. Its bad in other arenas also but due to their lighter terrains not as quite as bad.

I don't know exactly who's who in WB, but do you have the ability to change it back I. E. turn .gamma back on. If not do you know who can?

QUESTION: I see many pilots checking this site out. soo..

Is this a useful site for those of you trying to learn about fields and targeting in planning attacks???

If it is please respond. And Ill continue to give input.
If not, wife says go outside when the frost dissappears and cut the lawn.

Appreciate input.

NEW TARGET OF DAY. FIELD 11, LOCATION 6,1 1. SMALL GRASS AIRFIELD WITH ATTACHED DM BRIDGE.

Once again I ran into the issue of 500lb bomb being miss programed for attack points. This weapon shows Attack points on S3 Ordnance damage table II of ( 1173 ) points.
This exceeds the combined value of the 2 1kg ( 220 lb ) bombs on the LA5F which sounds just about right. attack points 2kg bomb 516 pt. or two have (1032 pt.)

Targets: type , nomenclature, numbers, defence points. I am dropping 500 lb bomb unless noted.

40mm ........( 2 ) 300.. destroyed
88mm .........( 1 ).400.. destroyed
PA aircraft ....(2) 350...destroyed
SM structure .( 1 ) 400. destroyed
DM bridge .....(1 ) 500. destroyed. DM is light bridge ( 3 spans ) , 4 rds 37mm also destroys a span. defence point an estimate.
HS house ..... ( 7 )650. destroyed. between 3 and 4 rounds 37 mm will kill also.
CO ready room (1)850.destroyed.
Now the targets get a bit harder.
AD ammo .......(1)1500. IT TOOK ME 4 BOMBS TO KILL : 4692 attack points with these 500 lbers.. Obviously bomb has been devalued. ( s/b two takes it down.)
RD Radar EM...(1) 1250. IT TOOK ME 7 BOMBS TO KILL: 8211 attack points to kill this 1250 defence point target. ( s/b two takes it down. )
RS Radar station(1) 1800. One bomb took it down. However it had the cumulative effect of the previous 7 dropped on RD since these targets are next to each other.
HG hanger.......(2)2500. Did this one different for bomb strength comparison. Dropped 500's on one hanger then switched to 100kg dropped salvo 2 from LA5.
result.............. 500's: 5 dropped for total (5865) pts to kill the 2500pt target.
......................100kg x 2 per sortie. 3 sorties. Or correctly modeled bombs took 3096pt to kill the 2500pt target.

Lesson: P39 not as effective as it should be as ordinance defective. However with majority of targets the 37mm easily takes them down increasing total firepower.
Suggest Dar EM/ station @ hanger, and ammo be targeted by bombers or LA5 instead of P39 unless cobra has dealt with all other targets first.
Also may check into effectivness of other bombs than the 500 untill they can be fixed, to attack these targets so as not to waste effort on hards. Maybe 1000 or 2000 lb variety or even 100's maybe more effective.

First post didn't show up so here it is again.

Blu - great work! I am sure many will find your work very useful. Be nice to keep track of what gets fixed too.

Wild Bill is my flight 4th (334th) so I will bring up the gamma issue tonight.

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