S3 Series

Our assignment was to hit and close F45 and damage F43. On the first sortie, we took off at T+2 and climbed to 15K feet over target. Each pilot was assigned specific targets and we rolled over and made our drop. The only remaining target was the dock. The two dive bombers that were late arrivals made their drop on it and the buffer showed closed. I heard that there may have been some 352nd that might have been rolling in on that final target, as well. Then, we egressed to F60.

On the second sortie, we had to deviate to the south to avoid enemy contacts directly in our flight path. Again, we rolled up and over on F43 dropped our ordinances and egressed toward a pre-designated rendezvous point (F49).

While we were heading there to form up, we heard that there were enemy cons directly over us. As confirmation, an A6M (VNSLP) engaged our squad. I gave the order for all our SBD pilots to engage him. As he came back through the bunch, NOFLYZ and he met head on and both went down. NOFLYZ received credit for the kill and I assume that VNSLP got the credit for killing him.

It was my understanding that only the American Eagles had been escorting us during this second sortie. Believing the entire squad to be in danger of being wiped out by the cons above and having very little fighter cover, I asked WEISER whether he wanted us to land at F49 (green post) to which, he promptly said yes. I ordered the squad to do so and we stood down for the night, as a result.

During a discussion with WEISER, KELLY, TODZLA, and DEWOLF, I was told that additional fighter cover was inbound and that it might have been possible to get the protection that we needed. However, the squad had already begun landing. We had hoped to have a third sortie to hit the ships at F43, but it didn't work out that way.

Want to thank WEISER for taking the job as CO. He had a very well-thought out plan and it appears that it was very successful.

Also, want to thank the American Eagles, 4th FG, and 352nd FG for providing protection for our squad.

And, as always, thanks to JABO and his crew for all the hard work in preparing the S3 for us.

<S>

A E'S only a 4 ship. . covering you on both you're sorties..on the first sortie..you all dropped on 45..and was egress in AE's.encountered 16 zeros that was trailing the group..but never made and a attempt.to strike you're group...I know me and my wing goaded the twice..we was at 26k.flying right under them.seeing the icons I was that close we was to them..they learned their lesson from frame 1 and would not come down...
2nd sortee...A E'S did there job very well..we turned and engaged a large formation of zeros..we kept the away from you..that was our job..we was only engaged for 2 minutes til 4th showed up in the nick of time to save the rest of our butts..you had already made you're drop and was egressing out. Now my downed pilot sat in twr at 49 as you all ditch..and the 88'ack wasn't even en firing..you ditch anyway...not even a tempting to rtb....
You didn't have enough faith is us or the rest our the Allied players...you abandoned every one..left them hang out to dry..
The way you play in the main arena is showing how well you train ....bomb and bail. Or in this case bomb a d ditch....or was it just to much effort to rtb to a base...
I so appalled I can't even think strait..I lost a good pilot for that..and he's mad too....and I don't blame him...

So if I got this right. You only lost 1 pilot the entire frame ....

..so I guess us lites didn't do there job..Nd that is what youre really saying.

First sortie the 4th arrived in trail of the Raiders as planned. Our strike group went in after the last bomb was dropped and took out the dock, 2 guns and one other target (not sure what) closing the field. We then egressed on the deck to 59 with little fuel to spare. Second sortie, we were late. Apologies to Weis and Raiders for that, no excuses just bad planning. Arriving on scene we saw the Raiders diving out towards the E and the AE's engaging at 15k. We assisted the AE's against cons from 15k down to the deck, while the 4th strikers hit 43 taking out several targets. Jedi informed me that the ack was very heavy from ground and shipping costing us one of out strikers. I ordered the strikers to RTB as in my opinion they did their job and I did not want to loose another man to ack. We were running on fumes when the 352nd arrived in the nic of time to save the day. I ordered the remaining 4thmen who were not engaged to chop throttle to 50% and rtb 53 for refuel. I touched down with a little over 3 minutes flight time. It was close. Third sortie, Jedi took lead as I had not yet made landfall from 53. KK and I came up in trail and caught up with Jedis flight as they were beginning an engagement with cons on the deck at 33. KK and I secured high cover for Jedi and his team. Once again we stayed on location until we were down to 20min flight time at 60% throttle. I instructed the group to rtb 53 for stand down. The flight home was peaceful and we got to see a beautiful sunset prior to landing.

It was a well laid out plan Weis. Unfortunately sometimes there is miscommunication, or things just don't go exactly the way we plan. In that respect, WarBirds is a true sim. How we deal with the events that are out of our control define us. You defined yourself as a man with integrity and passion. It takes a special kind of character to take on the big chair, and I salute all who have done it and continue to do it. What goes wrong is trivial and cannot be changed, and is not worthy of our time to ponder. The important thing is the end game, and I believe the S6 will show that Frame 2 was a success for the Allies. Salute to all.

I am sick of seeing this shit smeared by people regurgitating what they see spread by others with a personal vendetta. Leave the main out of the S3. I fly very often with the DR squad in the main, never have I seen any DR members bail out of a good airplane. All I hear over the coms channel is "save your airframe.. land those kills...get home safe". In fact, the several times I have seen people bomb & bail it has been by the same squad making all the noise.

I like to see people speak their minds because you see exactly who that person is.. but I don't even tune to channel 100 anymore because of the hate spewed over the airwaves.

S3s are much more intense and decisions have to be made on the fly.... many times there are better decisions to be made with options that are much more easily discerned in hindsight. Are we now going to attack anyone who makes a decision we don't agree with? I didn't like the fact that DR was done with time left on the clock, but decisions are made based on orders and information & misinformation available at that moment. It is a very common practice to land at the nearest field at the end of the frame... or at least when you will not be taking off again. At the very least, that decision led to those pilots surviving.

Keep talking Besea, the kettle is still black... your words reveal much.

Salute!

Thanks, Cool.

It's the way the real world is done. Ain't no video game here in the S3, with unlimited lives and gas and ammo. Land anywhere, teleport to a safe base, change planes, etc.

Sometimes you must preserve your resources for the next day/frame/battle. And the S3 might want to try one series, like 2 frames, where if you are lost then you don't fly the following or all the remaining frames. Imagine the howling and screaming. LOL.

Gums opines....

Let's forget who the squad involved was for a second. Put away all past history and look at this one specific event within the confines of this frame.

First of all, from here:

http://www.squadselectseries.com/events/TS/TSgrules.htm

We see this:



OK, so a new field type. What did that mean historically and how should we view them within an S3?

Here is a great overview of coastwatchers:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coastwatchers

So it looks like Coastwatchers were an Aussie or New Zealander or two hiding in the bushes with binoculars and a radio watching IJ movements with the assistance of natives:



and



I mean




So the likelihood that any WWII squadron commander would have ordered this:



To land here (uninhabited):







Which is an as-mentioned uninhabited island save a couple Coastwatchers that is surrounded by other islands full of these guys:



To avoid this:



When there were dozens of these in the area:



When the alternative was capture by those guys above with the pilots knowing what the Japanese were doing to captured prisoners...

Is basically zero.

So as a group we (or more likely Jabo) need to decide what happens when planes ditch at one of these Coastwatcher fields. Especially one that is behind enemy lines as shown on the Frame 2 map:



IMO the planes should all (10) be ruled lost and count against our score per:

http://www.squadselectseries.com/events/prules.htm



As even though that was technically "our base", there was nothing resembling an airfield and all aircraft - and likely pilots - would have been lost in the real deal.

At the very least this should be the rule (lost aircraft) for all Coastwatcher fields - especially for those behind enemy lines - for both sides regardless of who does it, going forward.

<S>

Todz...

I appreciate the approach to the issue.

Rather than being defensive, I agree that the specific action discussed here should be evaluated for future decisions.
As far as the specific action of ditching at a forward base.... it is my opinion that it should be a last resort of an individual or a choice after the "return to base" order has come from Jabo and the time to fly to an airfield would extend well beyond the end of the frame. I guess the emotions shown here should give pause for careful considerations in the future.

Points? Yes that is the format of the struggle here, I have no problem giving points or taking points whatever Jabo decides is proper. My guess is that it will fall in the same category as strafing down a CV.

I have to disagree with many of the comments made here. I saw no problem with having emergency landing or ditching at an allied held territory - nothing in the rules appear to deny that.

The raiders did an outstanding job closing a key base and setting the axis back quite a ways. A good question is how did they end up with such little cover in that area of the map - it was not in any of the planning for that to happen.

As the Frame CO - I can say with no uncertainty, that several things went on I WAS VERY unhappy about. It is not my intention thought to point them out publically but rather I addressed it privately with the respective CO's.

If Jabo makes a ruling on this it should only count from here on just like strafing CV's for 12 points that still stand.

More later as I get to responding to all the squads but I can't access the forum once I log into work.

PS: Darryl asked me before landing - I made the decision not him.

Agreed.

<S>

Salute!

Sorry to be absent, but I don't understand the scenario.

Looking at S6 for some DR pilots, I see "landing at F49". Could be some "ditching", but not reflected in the log.

So did they set down on the terrain? Did they actually "ditch" in the water?

I am confused.

I agree that using a coast watcher site to land seems beyond the scope of our "rules", which are many, IMHO.

In any case, I don't wish to take away any "points" or "tgts destroyed" once the job is done. It's like when we buffs get shot down a few seconds before our bombs hit from 25K. The eggs are "launch and leave", regardless of the next few seconds when we are blown up by ack or an enema lite. We flew for over an hour and released spot on to a tgt, but if we blow up before the TOF (time-of-flight) of the egg, then the hit doesn't count and we're dead. It's the same for torps. Pefect drop and dead on course, but we are shot down before the torp hits. Results are zip, nada, no way dot com.

The WB program is based upon what the player is seeing on his front end and not what the other guy or target is doing/seeing. So you can jink and such, but if the two positional data agree when you press the trigger, then you get a hit or kill or... That's for the lites. Not so for the buffs, or so it seems. With a 15 or 20 second delay until impact, we get zero results even tho we dropped a dumb bomb that didn't need any guidance or whatever.

I think we need to move this to the CO forum, ya think?

Gums sends...