S3 Series

Would love to see video proof from Frame 4. I have up until I died on video, then I was the one vectoring on DAR. But hey, if you think you did a great job and you can say with a straight face you did not ORDER your group to stay up....then its a bigger issue then what was stated.

Bottom line if you think Sunday Morning is the time to announce the plan--don't CO the frame. If you think posting an hour and half prior to a meeting on the forums is the way to get everyone involved--don't CO the frame. If you don't have the time to do it and think just assigning bases to groups to roll from and let someone else develop route, and timing--don't CO the frame.

Just because you've participated in S3s for 15 years doesn't qualify you for shit....sorta of like saying I'm a good driver because I've been driving for a long time...

Maybe I'm putting more into the S3 then what it was meant to be....but when we do a Pearl Harbor scenario and nobody bombs Pearl I think the intent is not being met.

Dobs

I see this is getting us no where and it's sad, because you are losing people who are willing to CO a frame. I really take issues with this statement.



It's not up to the frame CO to do that. We bombers do that. We know what route are best and how to do our job and saying that is wrong Dobs. Your expectation and what a frame CO should be is not right in my opinion. I ask the other squad members what is best for them ans where they think the fit in. The frame CO not only puts his ideas out there, but I rely on the expertise of others give me there thoughts as well.

Ahhh...nevermind. I had a long post addressing this latest issue...but I decided to delete it rather than edit it for brevity.

The only point I have is that it is an imposition on the other squads on your side if a squad tasked with CO duty should forego their duty because they do not like the makeup of their force.

Salute!

Did not unnerstan your post, Saki-breath.

I have to go with Hawk as far as buff routes and planning and timing stuff goes.

I also expect HHQ to provide guidance early on as to potential tgts and maybe even routes ( but I feel routes should be up to the buffs).

As i posted before, it is really hard to plan a route and figure the tonnage and so forth when we do not have the previous frame results in hand by Tuesday.

My thots are to keep ground movement and field closure simple. If I see a frog flag on a red field that existed 5 minutes ago, I know where we stand for the next frame. It is not that hard to keep the field colors as they wound up at the end of a frame. THEN RESET THE DAMNED ARENA FOR PRACTICE AND PLANNING!!!!

Gums opines....

When I CO, I list possible targets for the Buffs and let them decide which one(s) they want and what route they want in. I am not a Buff driver (usually) so I let those who know how to make their plan. It is then my job to decide how to provide escort and if we want any other aircraft to do Jabo work.

The Buff Plan was up on Saturday, so I was able to tell my squad where we would meet the buffs and when we would show on NME DAR. I only needed what field we would be starting at.

You are a liar from a long way back so it doesn't surprise me that you continue to do so.

Your only dedication is to never admit when you make a mistake.

It is obvious that most in this thread are only interested in protecting the status quo.

Bomber guys leave because of the very late and totally inept planning and execution of frames like the Frame 5 of TSU.

I personally watched 4FG circle over the 475FG in Frame 4 even though I was directing all fighters to that fight and we know you ordered the 4FG to not engage, Weiser.

And I watched from the tower in Frame 5 as the 7 remaining fighters airborne, ALL 4FG flew over the lone remaining bomber (NOFLYZ) as he flew into the maelstrom alone and unprotected attempting to close a target with no hope of doing so because of the extremely late and incomplete planning for Frame 5.

If refusing to engage to help your side and then lying about it is the S3 standard, then it isn't a standard I wish any part of.

If flying past the lone bomber to RTB while that lone bomber is trying to salvage a total lack of preparation is great planning and execution, S3 isn't worth the effort.

Dawger



You have no idea why bomber guys leave and it has nothing to do with what you said so please don't speak for them. They are leaving Warbirds for various reasons, but not what happen during frame 5.

Your post has many incorrect statements and it won't do any good to address them because of the reaction we get from you and Dobs.

We are trying to fix things and not keeping fuel on the fire like you are doing.

<S> ALL

I was asked by WEISER to take a look at this thread to get my opinion, so I did. I shared it with him, last night. I told him that I really didn't want to post here, there, or anywhere, because I didn't fly this past year in the S3. He was disappointed that I was not wanting to chime in on the discussion, as a CO. He stated that there were many who have spoken to him in PM, but were unwilling to do so in public.

First, let me say, I hope to have the Doolittle's Raiders ready and willing to re-enter the S3 in the Fall. I've been trying to do as much training as possible, so they will function as a single unit while making their special deliveries.

Second, I believe that both WEISER and DAWGER made good points. DAWGER is correct to desire frame orders earlier in the week. It gives everyone time to run time hacks and give necessary input to make the mission more likely to be successful. WEISER said he had started the process earlier in the week by asking for input, to which, he received very little input, if any. WEISER made a good point that he wanted to have the bombers to develop the plan for getting to the target and back. Sometimes, because of their experience, they know what works better than a fighter jock CO. That is not always the case, but for WEISER, that is his reality. WEISER stated that it is hard to make solid plans until the updated maps and intell reports are delivered. There have been many times when that info was not available until late in the week, or later. That information is important and somehow, it should be pushed out on Monday and no later than Tuesday to facilitate good planning. DAWGER is correct in saying there needs to be better communication among the squads working together. Calling for a Team Speak conference two hours before it is to be held makes it hard to expect that everyone will be in attendance. Simply schedule the meeting earlier in the week for whatever time you want it to be could improve attendance and participation. I have found communication to be a major weakness in the S3 planning over the years.

DAWGER and DOBS are correct to say if there are going to be time constraints for the Frame CO, then, he needs to pass the job off to someone else in his squad or another squad, altogether. However, sometimes there are things that cause delays that are unavoidable. I have CO'd about 22 frames in the S3. All the things that I have mentioned have occurred, so it isn't just theoretical speak. It is true that things don't go always according to plan. But, nevertheless, a plan needs to be formulated as early as possible for everyone's benefit.

Third, some have suggested that if the 475th are on same side, they will not CO the frame. That is totally ridiculous. For fear of criticism, one would just not honor their obligation to CO a frame? That's a sign of weakness. If you are responsible for the CO's job, do it, and do it to the best of your ability. Having said that, people like DAWGER, need to be more tactful in their constructive criticism of the frame CO. As frame CO in the past, I sought out honest evaluations from those who executed my orders. That's how you improve. None of us is perfect, and we are unable to conduct a mission by ourselves. It takes a team effort. We succeed as a team. We fail as a team. We don't really die, so we can fly again the following week. But, to not take on your responsibility as frame CO just because the 475th is flying same color is just childish.

Finally, the S3 is about the best thing going for Warbirds, currently. I hope the community pulls together and keeps it alive for years to come.

Sincerely,
Darryl <S>
CO of the Doolittle's Raiders

Looking forward to this, Darryl.

~S~

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