S3 Series

More to the point, how many pilots left in Warbirds? All must be appeased or the game is in trouble. Not an easy thing to do.

I want to extend all credit and a hearty S! to those volunteers and staff who put in ungodly hours trying to make Warbirds better than any other flight sim. Your efforts deserve recognition. Please do not mistake legitimate concerns as being anything other than that. Concerns are not personal nor are they an affront to your efforts.

S!
Crommm
American Eagles

Bombers climb too fast, cruise too fast and get higher, faster than they should at a given weight.

Combined with the small terrain size that results in lower than real world fuel loads and the imbalance becomes much greater because while horizontal distances are compressed the vertical distances are not.

Trying to correct via fuel modifier punishes the fighters.

This could be fixed with a separate bomber fuel modifier that would force them to carry more fuel but the real solution is new bomber FM's AND separate fuel mods.

I don't know about current incarnation but the interim B17G version from 2013 for example was making this at 57,000lbs

25000ft
260mph TAS 100%
282mph TAS BST1
297mph TAS BST2

28000ft
268mph TAS 100%
277mph TAS BST1
284mph TAS BST2

these results are not wildly away from the last 3 lines on this chart






Climb wise they are probably a bit better than is factual but in terms of gameplay and the vastly reduced horizontal distances.... (ground covered on climb)


The point is that regardless of anything performance related, the bomber group chooses at which altitude they plod along at in an S3.

buff damage models actualy designed to be used at 1 up to 1.5 max in my humble opinion.

2.0 Buff Tuff.... ah well......

The buffs just killed more fighters than fighter killed buffs (including AI buffs) in frame 1. Sounds like we need buffs to escort the fighters.

In reality, bombers ( or anything else) did not cruise at maximum speeds. Formation station keeping is very hard at maximum throttle and the engines couldnt handle the strain. Fuel burns go very high. These things are not currently modeled for the bombers. In order to allow the AI to remain on station they have generous allowances in their FM to compensate.

Every bomber currently has an extra 30 % angle of attack allowance to "fix" operator error in the bombsight.

Bomber FM's need the same standard applied as the fighters for S3.

In reality, 4 engine bombers were not flying around NOE most of the time either but warbirds players do that readily as well.

Not saying the FMs are totally accurate by any means but the issue you describe seems to be more about HOW people are using them.

In past times people like Whawk probably chose to fly their buffs with a historical profile
Maybe that is not the case these days.

My issue is a blend of behavior and flight modeling but some of the current modeling is a direct result of players going to the owner directly and demanding certain capabilities ( no stall while in the bombsight for example means the bombers have extra AOA capability).

It would be my preference that modeling was not agenda driven.

over the course of time i've come to realize now that i'm dead wrong about how these FMs perform because back in 2005 when i first started playing it was all arcade. but the other night talking to jman about the p51D i came to understand about how the p51D performs at low speed. i admit that i've not the sharpest tool in the shed and have given dawger and FM team a hard time and i apologize. just not been taught the new way with torque and everything else with all the changes.