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 Post subject: Re: OCB Frame 1 Summary
PostPosted: Thu Jun 09, 2016 12:41 am 
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Joined: Sat Nov 09, 2013 3:45 am
Posts: 131
Killer for gameplay and realism?

Am I hearing that buffers want realism?


352nd Fighter Group (V) - "The Blue Nosed Bastards of Bodney"
328th Fighter Squadron C.O. (V) - PE - Red and Green

dulce bellum inexpertis

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 Post subject: Re: OCB Frame 1 Summary
PostPosted: Thu Jun 09, 2016 11:42 am 
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Joined: Sat Nov 09, 2013 5:28 am
Posts: 144
Sakai wrote:
Madcat wrote:
Hey PA - we have done this before in the ETO back to back, IIRC. I would add that it was met with mixed opines on the boards. However, in the frame, it was clearly obvious that the AI formations were NOT protected by the fighter groups. Luftflotte 6 made repeated attacks on these bombers from just feet wet, though Belgium and into Germany...without any Allied fighter interdiction. I think the idea is good, but in practice, its lacking. Further, no 'assists' were given, despite many instances where combined elements attacked one bomber.

Too many AI formations to protect. If I'm not mistaken, we had orders to attach ourselves to the player operated buffs.
The Luftwaffe ignored the player operated buffs and went after the AI.

What I'm suggesting is one single AI formational 20-22K (real life altitude for B-17 bomb runs) escorted by fighters.
Luftwaffe gets no points for shooting down AI (but do get credit for a kill).
The fighter guys have fun :)
Meanwhile the bomber pilots have fun at 30K, unescorted and unmolested.

Bomber pilots do not have fun when under attack.
Axis pilot do not have fun above 28k in 190s (or 109s).
Escort pilots do not have fun when there's no engagements.

I've been in a P-47D25 at 40K escorting buffs at somewhere over 30K.
Not a single interception... Most boring S3 ever.

I've been in a 190A4 at 38k trying to chase down bombers at 35k.
Second most boring S3 ever..

With the new fighter FMs performing more realistically at altitude while the bombers have unrealistic FMs it's not going to work at all.

Just don't try it next Sunday.
I have something fun to do that night.


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 Post subject: Re: OCB Frame 1 Summary
PostPosted: Thu Jun 09, 2016 3:00 pm 
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Joined: Wed Nov 13, 2013 1:14 am
Posts: 1047
Jman wrote:
Killer for gameplay and realism?

Am I hearing that buffers want realism?


State you sources, because I agree with Gums.


Capt Hawk
CO - The Knights Who Say Ni!


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 Post subject: Re: OCB Frame 1 Summary
PostPosted: Thu Jun 09, 2016 3:02 pm 
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Quote:
Bomber pilots do not have fun when under attack.


Not true Madcat. We like the excitement of the attack and watching our escorts deal with them.


Capt Hawk
CO - The Knights Who Say Ni!


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 Post subject: Re: OCB Frame 1 Summary
PostPosted: Thu Jun 09, 2016 3:07 pm 
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Joined: Sat Nov 09, 2013 3:45 am
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Hawk wrote:
Jman wrote:
Killer for gameplay and realism?

Am I hearing that buffers want realism?


State you sources, because I agree with Gums.

It's a question....

"...do buffers want realism??"


Yes or no?


352nd Fighter Group (V) - "The Blue Nosed Bastards of Bodney"
328th Fighter Squadron C.O. (V) - PE - Red and Green

dulce bellum inexpertis

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 Post subject: Re: OCB Frame 1 Summary
PostPosted: Thu Jun 09, 2016 7:02 pm 

Joined: Tue Mar 22, 2016 9:22 pm
Posts: 7
What altitude did B17's operate at historically?


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 Post subject: Re: OCB Frame 1 Summary
PostPosted: Thu Jun 09, 2016 7:19 pm 
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Joined: Fri Nov 08, 2013 12:38 am
Posts: 1470
Bombers are extremely tough in this series. They only have one mission so can spend time getting to altitude. They want somebody to attack them and they want to bomb. Fighters want to protect them and attack them. Sounds like fun for everyone.


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 Post subject: Re: OCB Frame 1 Summary
PostPosted: Thu Jun 09, 2016 11:08 pm 
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Quote:
"...do buffers want realism??"


That depends what your definition of realism is?

Yes we want realism, no we don't want to be force as to how much fuel we take.

For that matter, the FMs are not flying like the real thing either, but it what it is and we live with it.


Capt Hawk
CO - The Knights Who Say Ni!


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 Post subject: Re: OCB Frame 1 Summary
PostPosted: Fri Jun 10, 2016 12:36 am 
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Hawk wrote:
Quote:
"...do buffers want realism??"


For that matter, the FMs are not flying like the real thing either, but it what it is and we live with it.

Do elaborate......

You are wanting them to fly like the real thing then?


352nd Fighter Group (V) - "The Blue Nosed Bastards of Bodney"
328th Fighter Squadron C.O. (V) - PE - Red and Green

dulce bellum inexpertis

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 Post subject: Re: OCB Frame 1 Summary
PostPosted: Fri Jun 10, 2016 6:10 am 
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Joined: Tue May 13, 2014 9:25 pm
Posts: 661
Hawk wrote:
Quote:
"...do buffers want realism??"


That depends what your definition of realism is?

Yes we want realism, no we don't want to be force as to how much fuel we take.

For that matter, the FMs are not flying like the real thing either, but it what it is and we live with it.


No, it is what you demanded they be. These bomber FM's are a very direct result of complaints straight to the owner.

I know this to be true because I am the guy who carried out the directives to make them "easy".

Kudos to you for an impressive disinformation campaign.


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