S3 Series

Planning was superb with many individuals contributing to the cause. A good plan was put together and was implemented mostly as planned.
We still need the bomber leader(s) to visit the forum throughout the week to keep current with what is being planned and to bring input to the cause.
Having bomber mission orders not understood before the frame begins is not conducive to a successful frame and adds confusion.

The Axis did not fall for the feint of the 352nd, nor the destroying of the radar emitter at F29. It was a gamble that did not pay off unfortunately.
In fact it bit us in the a$$ somewhat. The Axis 'figured' we were coming in over the North Sea and I should have recognized the fact that with this map bomb runs usually
use the N Sea route when appropriate for obvious reasons. With the fighter escort we have available I suggest any other bomb runs go right up the gut to the targets with max
escorts. We do have the assets to protect the bombers in this series. Also with the clouds as they are, we need some fighters closer to the buffs altitude for
enemy identification before they get close to the bombers. Of course we still need some fighters at 30K+ for top cover as well.

Escorts did a valiant job of trying to protect the bombers, especially with the first few attacks. Unfortunately their scouts first found the N group of bombers where
we had the least fighter cover (2). Some bomber pilots also dropped on areas near the targets that were not needed to complete the mission. There were many good drops
as well though. Bombers seemed to scatter some after they were empty which was due to various reasons, some of which were not under their control.

We took out of service at least 2 subpen locations and possibly 3. Pretty good considering the few bombers that made it to target.
It seems everyone had fun and that is part of why we show up for the S3's.

I just don't understand how so few enemy fighters could take down so many bombers. Granted they did attack in groups and smartly.
I don't know how we lost a number of fighters to ack either.

Lessons learned, we had fun and did achieve some success.
Thanks all for showing up!

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Bomber formations were very good for both groups.
Escort was very good for both groups.
The plan was a good one.
It just didn't work.
The LW pressed home their attacks very close.
estimated 13 pilots, 39 planes and perhaps 3 or 4 pilots with 6 or 7 planes made it home. Not sure how many ai got credited when pilots landed ( informal bomber stats)
(takes deep breath) Berlin, here we come.
I'll keep my other thoughts to myself for now.

For the amount of damage we took, I think mission-wise we did well...reports not in yet, but the buffs took out a large number of subpens.

Buffs did a great job, but need to stay closer together so we can protect them. We got pretty spread out that last frame.

Looking at the scores, it looks like both sides took a heavy beating.

BG2 group was pretty close most of the time with the exception of one or two who got dumped off the server. With every pilot accounting for 3 aircraft, 2 or more people missing makes a big difference. Please check the availability of jumping ship once the mothership is downed, I couldn't manage it last week. Perhaps the arrangement of pilot and AI's needs to be looked at so the players' aircraft doesn't stick out so much.

I think we need to make better use of higher altitudes to at least favour our 'little friends' and give a speed advantage over the standard axis fighters. It won't make a blind bit of difference to the jet and rocket engines.

Buffs were close together until they got all shot up and dispersed after 2nd target.
Recommend practicing transfer bomber stuff in the Main ( not legacy) arena where this feature has been enabled. Tunisia terrain, enhanced wingmen. It DOES work.
Zoom in on map, click on the upside down T ( represents your ai wingman) it brings up pull down menu, one choice is "transfer command) click on that. I successfully transferred to both my ai, but unfortuantly they were also going down at same time.

From what I could see the first fight was 16-19 Axis fighters arriving at 34000+ ft, against 6-8 escorts at lower altitude than the incoming enemy, and a few BG2 bomber pilots. The 4x 4th FG escorts all tried to engage one bandit each, but quickly got overwhelmed and lost all but one escort pilot within the first minutes. I don't know if any bombers from BG2 survived after that as I had to ditch with an oiled engine, but would have been a miracle for 2-4 bomber pilots to survive against that many bandits. Subsequent fighting I can't say since I was racing back in a P-47D, and only hooked up with the buffs during egress. From then on I think our escorts did a nice job of keeping the buffs alive.

* Going for a feint could work, but probably a more safe tactic for future missions is to have more escorts around the bombers instead, especially if splitting the bomber groups. 6-8 escorts stand no chance if the Axis arrive at full force.
* Also the B-17 is larger and tougher than the B-24, so hopefully will be harder to kill for the Axis.
* Escort fighters need to have the majority above 340000 ft, with a few scouts with the bombers. The Axis usually come in at 34-37k ft and if the escorts are lower than the incoming enemy, there is little chance preventing them from diving on the bombers.
* Also see my post in the frame 4 planning thread about having the B-17's egress at a ".speed 140" climb until they reach 35000 ft.

It was a fun frame though with intense fighting. Upping the hitpoints for bombers after this S3 series is currently being discussed by the FM Team. (Can't really change this during a series).


<S>
/Robert

Robert, 23rd only had 3 for escort duty. They engaged 3 Axis some 5-10 minutes before the others showed up, thus they were at the fringes of the Axis main attack. By the running commentary on the 23rd TS it sounds like one was encountered then another and then other showed up. Thus they were separated some miles while scouting for the bombers, then they called in the group to the buffs it would seem.
We did the best we could, just as you folks did. We are lucky we can Die and hopefully Learn for the next time.
War is Hell!
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