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The 262 Issue, etc.
http://squadselectseries.com/s3forum/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=205		 Page 1 of 3
Author:  Darryl [ Mon Jan 06, 2014 5:52 pm ]
Post subject:  The 262 Issue, etc.
First, thanks for those who have shared what the fighters did for us in frame one. After looking at the acmcam footage of those who were flying close support from the 4th and 325th, and hearing about how the 328th (6 pilots) took on 20 enemy a/c, we are most grateful to all of you. I hope we get to see some acmcam footage of the encounters.

Second, SE-PUA's vision was that we remove all the 262 bases within the first two frames. That idea has pros and cons.

PRO: The enemy no longer has the jet available to hit our ground targets with lightning speed.
CON: The enemy no longer has the jet available and now it puts them in a/c that can come after our bombers with 2 more steps of 190s/109s, or they will just use the 190s to continue striking our ground targets. They may simply move into their bombers.

Questions:
1. How effective were the 262s in frame one?
2. Would it be better to allow them to use them 4 out of 5 frames to keep up to 13 pilots off our bomber groups, since they can only be utilized for ground strikes?

Third, while I haven't spoken with GUMS about this, I'd like to suggest to the new Frame CO that we repeat the ingress route behind the front line as we did in frame one. The benefits were obvious. We would up from L1 and land at L19, again. (See picture below)

Image


If it is decided that we do want to remove all 262 airfields, perhaps the following route would be acceptable:

Image

NOTE: The targets might need to be reversed to make the 262 fields primary with the L72 being a target of opportunity upon egress.

Thanks <S>
Author:  Gums [ Mon Jan 06, 2014 9:13 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The 262 Issue, etc. the 262 bogey man
Salute!

With the restrictions on the 262, I feel they are no players. Sure, it can zip over and hit our small fields and bridges, but our lites should be able to restrict them to one pass, and maybe even bag a few. In the past, the best use of the 262 has been as a scout when we came over the North Sea.

We have taken away the south 262 bases, so we now know where they have to come from.

I agree with Darryl about routes for at least next frame or two. Another historical mission would be the time-worn North Sea route, but that one is very tuff on the lites.

I would rather see F55 and F56 go and then book out west. We have two LAF on the shore, and we could take less gas, etc. We also have to consider the two plane-type rule, so maybe use Forts next frame to get that box checked off. While I like the Lanc for a night mission, the sucker has only deer rifles for otto, and I can attest to the power of the Liberator's Ma-deuce when I nailed a dweeb as a gunner Sunday night.

Gums....
Author:  =vslp= [ Tue Jan 07, 2014 12:04 am ]
Post subject:  Re: The 262 Issue, etc.
We got lucky bagging 1 jet, only because fast movers were reported, and I was lucky guessing their target, and just happened to be in position. Their first attack on 23, they closed the field, and we were 60 mile away, which I fear will be the norm. 190's and ju 88's can be dealt with. Jets, almost get a free pass...but I dunno what kind fo points they can score, and its disheartening trying to bag them. Do what we did in ww2, take em out where they live.
Author:  sepua [ Tue Jan 07, 2014 12:38 am ]
Post subject:  Re: The 262 Issue, etc.
If we close theirs Me's bases they'll have to use Ju88's to hit us.

This means they'll have to dedicate some fighters for buffs escort, right?!

This should take some presure outta our heavies, right?!
Author:  Brushman [ Tue Jan 07, 2014 1:14 am ]
Post subject:  Re: The 262 Issue, etc.
The jet I bagged made the mistake of reversing back to strafe the target too soon and too quickly after his initial pass, getting himself too slow as he made a climbing turn. He was easy meat for me in my diving Jug. The other 262s attacking the base blazed on past after dropping ord and extended away; we couldn't catch them. I don't expect them to make a similar mistake.

Some additional pros and cons to knocking out their ability to fly jets, sorta echoing Darryl's first post:
Pro: They lose ability to quickly knock out small fields like they did F23, forcing them to use other aircraft that may be easier for us to catch and have a chance of killing.

Con: We no longer have them as a high-point value target to kill. The jet is rather fragile, it only took a short burst of my 8x.50s to knock off his tail (I added an additional burst to take off an engine and wing because sometimes I'm an asshole), so once you do catch up to them they're easier to kill than a buff. From reports of those attacking the ju52 AIs, buff tuff seems to be on the high side...if they start upping ju88s instead, we can catch them but may have more difficulty outright killing them. (btw...I don't see a point value for the ju88 on jabo's series summary point chart.)
Author:  Darryl [ Tue Jan 07, 2014 4:12 am ]
Post subject:  Re: The 262 Issue, etc.
This is helpful. Sounds like the Pros of taking away the 262 bases outweigh the Cons. Is that everyone's consensus?

If so, we should probably make sure that those two remaining 262 fields go down in frame two.

Thanks <S>
Author:  Todzilla [ Tue Jan 07, 2014 4:29 am ]
Post subject:  Re: The 262 Issue, etc.
As was posted above, the jets con operate with impunity if they fly halfway smart. I would love to see us knock them out of the game.
Author:  Gums [ Tue Jan 07, 2014 5:21 am ]
Post subject:  Re: The 262 Issue, etc.
Salute!

I don't like it, but will go with the flow.

The Knights may have embedded escort, but they are not as fast as the jets.

Gums...
Author:  jlordj [ Tue Jan 07, 2014 5:09 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The 262 Issue, etc.
I think we should close down the 262 bases. We could also try only closing L73 and park a fighter group over L70 for a frame and see how that works. Jets are worth 4 points each and they are vulnerable taking off and landing. We'll have to wait until Jabo comes out with the Frame 1 results, but I think the 262's generated most of the Axis points.
Author:  -Epic- [ Tue Jan 07, 2014 5:42 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The 262 Issue, etc.
Close the 262 bases. A group of hvy 262's can close a 15pt base rather quickly. No need of giving them easy points. Make the Knights fly Ju88's for the duration. If they choose to come up in fighters....even better for us.
<S> -Epic-
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