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Preliminary Plans for Frame Five
http://squadselectseries.com/s3forum/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=1693		 Page 1 of 3
Author:  Darryl [ Thu Dec 03, 2015 3:09 am ]
Post subject:  Preliminary Plans for Frame Five
Hey Fellas:
It seems the map has changed, but I don't see the score summary or ride changes posted. Anyone else see them?

Available Allied Bases: How best should we use them?

89 - 1 step
124 - 2 steps
125 - 2 steps
95 - 1 step
132 = 4 steps
160 - 3 steps
152 - 4 steps
99 - 4 steps
163 - 2 steps
186 - 2 steps
174 - 1 step

Which Axis Bases/Villages would be the most beneficial to hit?
Author:  split [ Thu Dec 03, 2015 4:08 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Preliminary Plans for Frame Five
Straight from the donkey:

http://www.squadselectforum.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=1692
Author:  Sasquatch [ Thu Dec 03, 2015 5:27 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Preliminary Plans for Frame Five
Darryl wrote:
Hey Fellas:
It seems the map has changed, but I don't see the score summary or ride changes posted. Anyone else see them?

Available Allied Bases: How best should we use them?

89 - 1 step
124 - 2 steps
125 - 2 steps
95 - 1 step
132 :mrgreen: = 4 steps
160 - 3 steps
152 - 4 steps
99 - 4 steps
163 - 2 steps
186 - 2 steps
174 - 1 step

Which Axis Bases/Villages would be the most beneficial to hit?


I've not gone over the points per target yet, but its not What we bomb but rather 'how' we bomb. The last couple of frames have cost the allies many points because of A: flipping multiple times over a target gives the enemy a static target and B: The AI's are not staying in formation robbing us of bombs on target and becoming easy pickings for enemy fighters.
I believe that the bombers that we have been given have a respectable speed at altitude near full throttle. Hitting a series of targets rather than 'closing' a field/base etc; forcing the enemy to react to our actions and using their short endurance against them, in my opinion gives us the best chance to win the frame on points.
Oh, did I mention it makes it easier on escorts to cover 1 formation also? :)
Author:  jabo [ Thu Dec 03, 2015 5:57 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Preliminary Plans for Frame Five
Not sure what the AI problems are but never send your AIs to bomb another target. Just keep them in formation and hopefully they stay up with the lead bomber.
I have seen several low Stukas do this on the deck and their AIs have stayed with them and not gone off. But it could be a FM weirdness specific to an AI plane type. Test the Wellington this way and see if it stays in formation.
Author:  Darryl [ Thu Dec 03, 2015 11:16 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Preliminary Plans for Frame Five
Sasquatch wrote:

I've not gone over the points per target yet, but its not What we bomb but rather 'how' we bomb. The last couple of frames have cost the allies many points because of A: flipping multiple times over a target gives the enemy a static target and B: The AI's are not staying in formation robbing us of bombs on target and becoming easy pickings for enemy fighters.


SQTC:
Not sure I understand what you mean by "what we bomb but rather 'how' we bomb." First, we have NOT made multiple passes over targets. We have ONLY bombed on ingress, extended and flipped to hit the target again on the way home. Secondly, another point I have made in another post, we have NOT sent our Ai in to bomb anything. The FM is goofed up making it nearly impossible to keep one's Ai with him. That is a fact. Run a test, if you like.

Sasquatch wrote:
I believe that the bombers that we have been given have a respectable speed at altitude near full throttle. Hitting a series of targets rather than 'closing' a field/base etc; forcing the enemy to react to our actions and using their short endurance against them, in my opinion gives us the best chance to win the frame on points.
Oh, did I mention it makes it easier on escorts to cover 1 formation also? :)


I am supposing that we were given the B25C because that was the a/c that the Allies had during this period of the war. We have no issue with the primary bomber. It flies well. The issues that we have are two fold: 1) the Ai is goofed up, and 2) the MC200 has been able to reach us at altitude successfully.

Your Suggestion:
Rather than try to close an airfield, we fly around dropping bombs and many targets at higher altitude hoping that our fighters can kill their fighters? Is that what you are suggesting?

Side note:
I read somewhere in a post by an Axis player that our fighters would not come down to engage their fighters while they were attacking our bombers. I am pretty sure that I have seen our fighters engaging the enemy, but I would like someone to explain what this player was referring to. Are most, or some of our fighters not engaging the enemy? I gotta tell you, when we are in the bombers, we can barely see anything going on around us. So, the reason that I am asking is for clarification as to what that Axis player was talking about. I did hear from JLORDJ in the main something similar, but I didn't get much out of him about it.

Thanks <S>

P.S. By the way, we have ONLY had a single formation throughout the series. At times, we have had some stragglers. But, we're really trying to keep them as tight as possible.
Author:  Beaver [ Fri Dec 04, 2015 2:09 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Preliminary Plans for Frame Five
There is a 10 point bonus for closing a field, but points are awarded for everything except AAA. One option is to form up at the cross roads between 90,91,92 (4.9.4). head north west, skirt the no, fly zone, then turn sw across 87 (town) and 86 (small field). It is also quite a long distance from any other NME airfield. If all of the Hurri II's go heavy, they could drop from the bomber altitude to add to the BDA. The Wellington should prove a much tougher nut for the Macchi's to shoot down, watching their vids, they would approach on a bombers 6 as there was little bomber AI fire in that area. Not the same with the Wellington.

If we all stay together, no group from the Axis side can bother us too much as long as we stay together. The 352 have probably gotten their invincibility complex as max level and will attack even if outnumbered. ;)

That's my 5 cents worth :D (can't be my 2 cents worth as we don't make pennies in Canada anymore, saved the Canadian Mint $14 Million per year)

LAF - 5 steps
MAF - 4 steps - 99, 132
SAF - 3 steps - 124,125
GAF\Town AF - 2 steps - 89

We have 10 total steps, so we should be able to put them quite close together at the start.
Author:  Beaver [ Fri Dec 04, 2015 2:17 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Preliminary Plans for Frame Five
Darryl, pick your bomber runs and targets by Friday evening (early) and if Dobs doesn't mind, he can coordinate the fighters ;)
Author:  =vslp= [ Fri Dec 04, 2015 12:38 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Preliminary Plans for Frame Five
Ran a test flight in Wellingtons, 100 fuel, 250 lb loadout.
Took off 132. Used a sp that pointed straight down the runway, out over the ocean. Rolled, took off straight ( note to practice takeoffs, torque is different than others so you can arrive at proper rudder trim level).
Waited till ai's were all formed up and made GENTLE turn to north, flew down the 9 line at 100 T boost 1, cs 140. Everything did fine, boost ran out, ran 100 t. Took about 3 1/2 grids ( approx. 40 min) to arrive at 15/16 k.
I bombed 4 targets, never flipped on any target, made gentle turns...was level 17 k and headed home. Ai stayed with me entire way til I discoed about 40 mile from home.
WAs gonna try issuing the individual command for each ai to "land nearest base" so that they may land and not just disappear with damage when I landed, but I never got that opportunity. May try that later, needs checking.
So........for what its worth to the buff dudes.
Its what I got
Author:  Darryl [ Fri Dec 04, 2015 2:52 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Preliminary Plans for Frame Five
=vslp= wrote:
Ran a test flight in Wellingtons, 100 fuel, 250 lb loadout.
Took off 132. Used a sp that pointed straight down the runway, out over the ocean. Rolled, took off straight ( note to practice takeoffs, torque is different than others so you can arrive at proper rudder trim level).
Waited till ai's were all formed up and made GENTLE turn to north, flew down the 9 line at 100 T boost 1, cs 140. Everything did fine, boost ran out, ran 100 t. Took about 3 1/2 grids ( approx. 40 min) to arrive at 15/16 k.
I bombed 4 targets, never flipped on any target, made gentle turns...was level 17 k and headed home. Ai stayed with me entire way til I discoed about 40 mile from home.
WAs gonna try issuing the individual command for each ai to "land nearest base" so that they may land and not just disappear with damage when I landed, but I never got that opportunity. May try that later, needs checking.
So........for what its worth to the buff dudes.
Its what I got


For some reason, in the S3 arena, it seems that the Ai reacts differently. I have run the tests offline, too. I get the same results you got, but not in the S3 arena. When the order to head home is given, those slow gentle turns are a little harder to maintain.

Also noted that the Wellingtons overheat quickly.
Author:  =vslp= [ Fri Dec 04, 2015 6:56 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Preliminary Plans for Frame Five
Ran the test in the s3 arena
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