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Frame Three Preliminary Ideas
http://squadselectseries.com/s3forum/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=1640		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  Darryl [ Mon Nov 09, 2015 4:54 pm ]
Post subject:  Frame Three Preliminary Ideas
Does anyone have an educated guess whether the frontline will move in frame three? We closed two airfields and they closed one. That is the reverse of frame one, if that is a consideration. We were told that 117 and 138 will reopen in frame three.

I was asked whether we could take the bombers up to 20K on ingress and drop down to 15K over targets. The answer is IF the fighters believe that will keep us safe, we'll try it. We really weren't expecting to see the enemy over us.

Let's toss out some ideas, if you have an idea.

First thoughts:
1. F86 will be closed to us. That means that the 475th and RCAF would have to be moved.
2. Can fighters come up from a town w/airfield?
Author:  =dobs= [ Mon Nov 09, 2015 8:34 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Frame Three Preliminary Ideas
Macchi's outdive Hurri's at all alts.

They hold speed reasonably well after the dive with the aid of WEP. If they get above us, they will dive down and run you down...that is how we lost most of our squad. They were MID-20's when we encountered them first. They know their air frame limitations and advantages and are exploiting them well.
Author:  Beaver [ Tue Nov 10, 2015 1:25 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Frame Three Preliminary Ideas
They only closed 1 field, but they did close all of the fortifications that were still up in the part of Albania we held. That may move the frontline.Their greatest advantage is the ability of the MC200's to carry bombs. Effectively each of their aircraft can either bomb or jabo, that makes 51 bomb capable aircraft for the Axis and we only fielded 15 (frame 1) then 20 for frame 2. We can't match that with just our bombers and 1 squad with the Hurri IIB. Also, we have been short of nine bombers which also makes a big difference. Not having the AI attack is cutting our bombing by 67%. The trick we used with bombers last series was to order the first AI group to attack AAA and the rest to attack ground objects. Once their bombs impacted (or we saw them drop), we ordered them to form up and they returned to formation. If you order them to attack, then issue no orders, they orbit the target area after they have expended ammo.
Author:  split [ Wed Nov 11, 2015 5:20 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Frame Three Preliminary Ideas
After reading jabo's frame two results post I came to the realization that on the scoring page when it says field closure, it doesn't mean field closure. It can also be a village, a port, or whatever.
Feeling stupid...Am I the only one who thought that?
If we want points (although we are so far behind now) then we need to bomb whatever is easiest to get closed...including using the bomb carrying hurries.
Author:  jabo [ Wed Nov 11, 2015 4:59 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Frame Three Preliminary Ideas
No squatch I get caught on the field terminology all the time. I guess I should say target instead that way everyone will be on the same page.

On advantage the Allies have is they are stronger in the south west corner of the front, more close fields to that region. Expect them to go after 138 again. Tanks and truck targets are good for quick close field points. Hurris can even strafe these down if given enough time. Tanks harder to close than trucks.
Author:  Beaver [ Wed Nov 11, 2015 5:16 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Frame Three Preliminary Ideas
If the AE+8th and RCAF base at 138, they can go to 113 NOE (under 500') they should be able to close it in 1 pass (the bridge just west of 113 is connected to the field). The only close field is 110 which holds 3 steps. If the group from 117 launches (will be on DAR) and heads east for a convoy heading from 80 to 118 that may draw those guys away from 113 and we can have the guys fly away from the road and back into Allied territory before the Italians can get there. We would them appear on DAR as we drop on 113, then run back to sea and get under DAR,

Just an idea, it is a bit of a gamble, but the most fighters they could bring to bear on us is 21 if all 3 steps from 110 meet us. ;)
Author:  =dobs= [ Wed Nov 11, 2015 9:07 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Frame Three Preliminary Ideas
You get caught under 14k you are dead in a Hurri I.
Hurri II is even/to slightly faster than the 200 otd it appears. But the 200 carries its E from dives very well, and holds its E better than the Hurri IIs.

Guns while they only number 2 on the 200s seem to be way more effective than 8 303s. Need a long burst to damage with 303s and even longer to kill... 50s will take pieces off with snapshots.

Shit gets crazy bz for me from now till Sat..so I'll check back in Sat night.


Dobs
Author:  Darryl [ Fri Nov 13, 2015 5:28 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Frame Three Preliminary Ideas
Thanks for all the input, fellas. The frame two closure of F79/F78 put us in a great position to pick up lots of points. Their only forward base is F110. I feel certain that they will be basing only fighters there to defend against attack. They need to reclose F138 and F117 to push the frontline south. We can't let them do that to either one. Because they have won the first two frames, we get the upgraded a/c and they don't. Is that right?

Points:
High value points come from closing fields/posts/villages and sinking moving and static shipping.

Our possible targets:

F113, F114, F115, F116, F118, all bridges, F110 (airfield) = 60 possible points (if we can close them)

1. If we mount an all out offensive on F110, we can push them back to airfields F34, F36, F9. We may be able to pick off the rest of the posts/villages the rest of the night.
2. If we make quick jaunts into the posts/villages with the Hurricane 2B, it will give the bombers time to get into position to strike 110. But, we run the risk of losing several of our fighters with all those guns.

Question: What would happen to all the a/c that is based at F110, if we close F110? Where would they rebase?

Their possible targets:

Southwest: F139, F117, F119, F142, F141, F138 (60 possible points)
Northeast: F88, F90, F89, F120, F91, F121, F124 (70 possible points)

Question: We need to develop a fighter plan to find and destroy their 9 bombers early in the night. How might we do this?

Recon Photos:
We have created recon photos for all our possible targets. They should be posted soon with links to view and download them.

http://doolittlesraiders.com/images/S3/11-14-15/F110.html

Basing: We must consider the most effective use of these fields depending on which direction we want to go. If we plan to take down the airfield first, we need to put fighters up front. If we want quick strikes, we may need to have bombers up closer to frontline then rebase further back.

F138 - 3 steps
F117 - 2 steps
F158 - 2 steps
F144 - 2 steps
F124 - 2 steps
F125 - 2 steps
F160 - 3 steps

Questionable:
F89 is a town/with runway
F168 is a seaplane based port
Author:  Beaver [ Sat Nov 14, 2015 8:33 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Frame Three Preliminary Ideas
Darryl wrote:
Question: What would happen to all the a/c that is based at F110, if we close F110? Where would they rebase?


F38 is a town with a strip, 1 step, any of the others would need to rebase near the Northern Part of Albania. All a long way from the front line.

They did not get any improved aircraft as they won both of the first frames.
Author:  Besea [ Sat Nov 14, 2015 11:10 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Frame Three Preliminary Ideas
it Saturday 1700 CST ..i have a breifing and tactical planning to do with S3 members in a few Hours .. lets NOT wing it.. Planning even for a fighter group... is very critical, also .. getting out orders this late we have NO time to plan..no time to digest the plan you present or fine tune it .. so you end up with gaggles runnin amok.. trying to make sense out of Caios ..

THIS IS VERY FRUSTRATING
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