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Frame 2 thoughts (after frame 1)
http://squadselectseries.com/s3forum/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=1171		 Page 1 of 5
Author:  Coolon [ Mon Feb 09, 2015 5:07 pm ]
Post subject:  Frame 2 thoughts (after frame 1)
unescorted attack planes are meat on the table for IJN
Shipping targets (static) can EASILY be strafed down for points, possibly ai transports also.

we need better coordination to establish local air superiority wherever the strike planes are attacking.


the score sheet was not available prior to frame 1, but it is now so we can see target values .
http://www.squadselectseries.com/events/OH/OHsummary.pdf
Author:  jlordj [ Mon Feb 09, 2015 6:57 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Frame 2 thoughts (after frame 1)
A few thoughts for Frame 2:

The allied fighters seem able to attrite the IJN fighters, but we have to go a long way to rearm, while they can replane and be on station before we get back. To take advantage of this, we can have the bombers time their attack when the fighters return to Truk on their second sortie. The bombers can either fuel heavy and loiter outside the enemies radar range, or delay their takeoff, or both. The advantage of loitering is: if the IJN doesn't engage the fighter sweeps, we can call in the bombers while we have a full cap. Another variation would be to have the bombers go in like Frame 1, but if the bulk of the fighters have to RTB, recall the bombers to refuel and go in with the second sortie of fighters.
Author:  MuskieZZ [ Mon Feb 09, 2015 8:07 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Frame 2 thoughts (after frame 1)
From the little I saw, The IJ had High/Med/Low CAP (Even was stated on the videos).

We wiped out the high CAP with our F6F advantage up high. It appears the A6M can't compete up high at all.

All strikes were performed low while the Lites CAP'd high and the low IJ's had a field day on the strikers. I dont think it would have mattered if the lites were still there, being high they can't help from 20K. The NS 2nd strike had the 4th, 23rd and the 352nd above them and we still got wiped out.

One thought would be to have everything stay high. Have all the TBD's level bomb the boats, easy to do with the laser sights. Offline, carrying (3) 500lb bombs sunk 2 ships on one run. Static ships sink easy. We should send everything into F20 at 25K at T+20.

Otherwise we have to send escort with the low strike groups and they will get bounced. I believe we need to stay high.
Author:  bollok [ Mon Feb 09, 2015 8:09 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Frame 2 thoughts (after frame 1)
That was a case of bad timing...

You strike guys pitched up just as the fighters finished engaging and had to turn home for fuel.
Either you should have been instructed to abort or enter a holding pattern until 2nd wave upped.

>S
Author:  MuskieZZ [ Mon Feb 09, 2015 8:19 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Frame 2 thoughts (after frame 1)
bollok wrote:
That was a case of bad timing...

You strike guys pitched up just as the fighters finished engaging and had to turn home for fuel.
Either you should have been instructed to abort or enter a holding pattern until 2nd wave upped.

>S


Doubt it would have mattered. Like I said, the NS had 30 lites above us when we got killed by 6~10 IJ.

We can't maintain High CAP and Escort Low. If we give the IJ High CAP, they will bust us being below them.

This has been the age old problem we always face. The fighters need to have alt advantage in order to survive and the strikes need to be low to hit anything.

The TBD is a excellent level bomber if it can be protected at its slow ass speed.
Author:  bollok [ Mon Feb 09, 2015 8:30 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Frame 2 thoughts (after frame 1)
Did you go in low?

Try cruising in at 12k - At least you will have some manouvering room?
Covering fighters should be able to maintain eyeball from 25k

TBD top speed is acheived at 8000ft (if you can call it that)
Author:  Gums [ Mon Feb 09, 2015 10:11 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Frame 2 thoughts (after frame 1) - TBD altitude?
Salute!

YGBSM!!! I don't think the Tub will get above 3 or 4K with its lightest loadout and using max power. Something is seriously wrong with the FM and we can't fix it now.

This was pointed out 2 - 3 years ago in beta testing, but more work was done on the M-107/b/Mod III to have it run 2 mph faster. Sheesh.

Gums whines....
Author:  Sasquatch [ Tue Feb 10, 2015 1:19 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Frame 2 thoughts (after frame 1) - TBD altitude?
Quote:
The Devastator proved to be a death trap for its crews: slow and hardly maneuverable, with light defensive weaponry and poor armor relative to the weapons of the time; its speed on a glide-bombing approach was a mere 200 mph (320 km/h), making it easy prey for fighters and defensive guns alike. The aerial torpedo could not even be released at speeds above 115 mph. The Navy immediately withdrew the 39 remaining TBDs from frontline units after the debacle at Midway.


Direct quote from Wikipedia....and accurate. Fortunately, we have torpedoes that (almost always) work. That's the tradeoff you strike guys need to decide. The low slow TBD with a superb weapon or the more survivable SBD that requires a higher degree of skill to deliver it's payload.

Either way, the most important thing is timing....we just didn't have it the first frame, we learned our lesson and hopefully correct it for frame II. :mrgreen:
Author:  jlordj [ Tue Feb 10, 2015 2:20 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Frame 2 thoughts (after frame 1)
MuskieZZ wrote:
...Doubt it would have mattered. Like I said, the NS had 30 lites above us when we got killed by 6~10 IJ...


If this was the case, several of the lites should have come down. I know several of us engaged the IJN down to the deck. Again, a large part of our fighter group was rearming when the bombers went in. More IJN were shot down than USN during the first sweep. If the fighters on their second sortie were back on station at Truk, the situation would have been less bleak for the bombers.

Another consideration, if the bombers go in higher and bomb the ack near the anchored ships, the fighters might be able strafe ships. In particular, ack at 20, 22, 19, and 21. The allies lost the frame due to the bomber losses. We have to protect the bombers.
Author:  -Oskar [ Tue Feb 10, 2015 3:23 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Frame 2 thoughts (after frame 1) - TBD altitude?
Sasquatch wrote:
Quote:
The Devastator proved to be a death trap for its crews: slow and hardly maneuverable, with light defensive weaponry and poor armor relative to the weapons of the time; its speed on a glide-bombing approach was a mere 200 mph (320 km/h), making it easy prey for fighters and defensive guns alike. The aerial torpedo could not even be released at speeds above 115 mph. The Navy immediately withdrew the 39 remaining TBDs from frontline units after the debacle at Midway.


Direct quote from Wikipedia....and accurate. Fortunately, we have torpedoes that (almost always) work. That's the tradeoff you strike guys need to decide. The low slow TBD with a superb weapon or the more survivable SBD that requires a higher degree of skill to deliver it's payload.

Either way, the most important thing is timing....we just didn't have it the first frame, we learned our lesson and hopefully correct it for frame II. :mrgreen:


May I also suggest the SBD Dauntless would be just as effective in the right hands and more survivable than the lumbering TBD, with the help of escorts...

Oskar
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