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Frame 4 - Bomber route idea
http://squadselectseries.com/s3forum/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=1112		 Page 1 of 5
Author:  noflyz [ Tue Jan 13, 2015 5:15 am ]
Post subject:  Frame 4 - Bomber route idea
No disrespect to the frame CO, not trying to dictate anything, just throwing out an idea encouraged by last night's good bomb run.

Applying logic the enemy is going to think OK. this worked good for them, but they know that we (that's them) now know.
SO they (that's us) are going to revert back to the northern route.

Then applying reverse logic they are going to think, well that is what they think we are thinking and so will be coming the same way again.

and finally applying reverse-reverse logic they are going to conclude that we will go back to the northern route.

Here's what we do:
T = Frame start time
S = Bomber start time.
S = T - 30 or 25

- Start from F110 and head due east till we barely touch their radar range at the 3x8 cross.
- We would do this just at about T+12 we stay on their radar for a good 5 minutes heading North.
- We double back and head SW, skirting the DAR - enemy in the meantime is convinced we are on our way to the northern route. because we are off dar.
- We re-enter DAR space T+40 or @ 2,6,4,6. Enemy fighters will by now would be looking for around 4,8,6,9 or so..
- Enemy has 90-120 minutes of flight time and hasten their way towards the bomb group. given they are much faster than the buffs we will be intercepted - someplace near 3,6,6,6. Our fighters from 108, 107 and 106 could join us at this point or a little before and of course KILL THEM ALL!
- As we pass LAF 56 they should all be out of fuel and landing. we continue to targets a round trip that will take us 60 minutes back to the F56 area. I expect a fresh wave of them will try get us on egress around the city 78 area. But they should be fewer in number by this time.
- We will be wheels down at F106 T+175-180 depending on the start.

Roughly this is how it looks (In my mind at least ;-)
Image

~S~
-noflyz
Author:  Coolon [ Tue Jan 13, 2015 12:29 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Frame 4 - Bomber route idea
I believe in the past we had to stay over England prior to T-0, but I didn't see anything about that in the rules this time.
Author:  MuskieZZ [ Tue Jan 13, 2015 4:58 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Frame 4 - Bomber route idea
I wanted to do this frame 1 but could not get the time to work out. If we double back we can't do the route in time.
See if you can fly it. I couldn't get it to work. We end up way past T+180.
Author:  noflyz [ Tue Jan 13, 2015 5:59 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Frame 4 - Bomber route idea
MuskieZZ wrote:
I wanted to do this frame 1 but could not get the time to work out. If we double back we can't do the route in time.
See if you can fly it. I couldn't get it to work. We end up way past T+180.


It's tight but doable. Took 225 minutes so a minimum of T-25 start is required. My data is based on flight tests I did for frame 1. Will try fly it tonight
Author:  Gums [ Tue Jan 13, 2015 9:24 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Frame 4 - Bomber route idea
Salute!

I go with Muskie, but a feint/headfake might work. Trouble is the time!! Also experience in these things is that they only work about half the time and for close tgt boxes.

We ain't fooling anyone folks. This series is for the Allied lites to do a great job saving the whales. Just look at the ponts they get for hosing a buff.

Looks like we're in Forts last two frames, huh? So they are a bit slower, but seem to climb better above 20K, and I'll check.

- The proposed route may or may not be detected by LW and/or given much attention. Frame 2 scouts had us was out there, and then the fight was on. So I see a lotta effort with a low payoff.

- My idea was a southerly route south of Hanover, then a NE run on tgts 39 and 40, then climb and scoot. Head to F6 from F110 and go from there with tac turns as last time. Climb faster than 150!!! 155 mph minumum with 6 x 1000.

That's the way I see it.

Gums....

EDIT: Tried Fort with 6 x 1000 and 50% gas from 110. Climbed at 120% and 155 until 20K, then 150 and 110%. Went direct to old route M3, then along route. Turned between 55 and 56 and flew south of Hanover to line up with tgts 39 and 40.

RTB climb to 31K and use 90% or so to get home.

Try it.
Author:  MuskieZZ [ Wed Jan 14, 2015 12:23 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Frame 4 - Bomber route idea
noflyz wrote:
... Took 225 minutes so a minimum of T-25 start is required.....



My math might be wrong but a 225min. mission would require us to up at T-45, hence too long.
(Frame is 180min.)
Author:  noflyz [ Wed Jan 14, 2015 5:08 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Frame 4 - Bomber route idea
MuskieZZ wrote:
noflyz wrote:
... Took 225 minutes so a minimum of T-25 start is required.....



My math might be wrong but a 225min. mission would require us to up at T-45, hence too long.
(Frame is 180min.)

Sorry my bad. It's 205 minutes. My diagram above has the time stated as S+205 (Hence S = T-25 minimum).

Regardless Its still cutting it too close. If we loose time in TAC turns etc or have to loiter at target we will be too late.
Author:  Todzilla [ Wed Jan 14, 2015 11:05 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Frame 4 - Bomber route idea
noflyz wrote:
No disrespect to the frame CO, not trying to dictate anything, just throwing out an idea encouraged by last night's good bomb run.

Applying logic the enemy is going to think OK. this worked good for them, but they know that we (that's them) now know.
SO they (that's us) are going to revert back to the northern route.

Then applying reverse logic they are going to think, well that is what they think we are thinking and so will be coming the same way again.

and finally applying reverse-reverse logic they are going to conclude that we will go back to the northern route.

~S~
-noflyz


Hopefully they're Sicilian.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U_eZmEiyTo0[/youtube]
Author:  Todzilla [ Wed Jan 14, 2015 11:07 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Frame 4 - Bomber route idea
Seriously though, I like going up the gut again with some slight mods. Let's plan on it again.

Fighters, please check in with what you are flying Sunday.

352nd = P-51B
4th =
23rd =
Knights =

Am I missing anyone?
Author:  Gums [ Wed Jan 14, 2015 4:05 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Frame 4 - Bomber route idea
Salute!

I go with Tod. K.I.S.S.

Less gas, so we get up to alt faster. Less power to cruise. Less time to get things cooking. Less complicated.

I do like the route I tried Tuesday. Went between 55 and 56, then ht 39 and 40 in a st line.

Gums sends...
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