S3 Series

You got your Libs Gums

Also change the route at your discretion: I'm not a buff puke, so, please, see that route and all it's information as info for help. you guys have the final word on that.

Just please let me know you final route and time racks so I can coordinate you escort.

Thanks for all the help guys! You rock!!!

SALUTE

Not sure yet which group. Will hold off and see how the final bomber plans unfold. I'm sure we'll fly the Mossie. Can't beat the range and stinging power. Plus it may give us some extra bombs for any possible clean up after the bomber boys depart the area.

I've open a thread just for the strikers, Sir.

Please let's move this discussion over there.

If this mossie is a Buff version I'm against it… I understand they are better suited for the mission, mainly due to it's leg, but we'll risk too many points to accomplish the mission.

It's doable with the typhoon

SE-PUA:
Without any opposition, the Nomads and Doolittle's Raiders could wipe out 3-4 large fields in one sortie. However, it is our understanding that there is an enemy who wants to kill us. I believe that we should count on one large field and have a secondary large field in the plans, if all goes better than expected.

I read somewhere about a "fake" run in the south to draw fighters away. I am here to tell you that the Doolittle's Raiders don't want to play that game, again. We want dedicated fighter protection from our RP to target and home, please. We don't want the protection to be a secondary mission after some primary mission elsewhere. Been there and done that too many frames over the last year. The fighters invariably get tied up, run out of gas, ammo, etc. and we end up going into our primary target uncovered.

This is one of those maps that is all about the fighters. We bombers count on them doing their job better on Sunday night than they do any other time they fly. These enemy 109s/190s (or whatever) come in from 35-40k down on top of us, as my memory serves. We'll need fighters up there with them before they get to us. We'll need fighters closer to us to slap them off us when they get through the first wall of protection. We'll need our fighters to stay with us and not chase fighters to the deck.

The enemy radar coverage is tight. There is no way to "sneak" into any of these targets. What we need is lots of altitude. The series setup pushes us below 30K feet. Not a problem, if we have the cover. (Personally, I think the B17G should be able to climb to 35K feet, B24J to 24-28K feet, and the Lancaster to 20-24K feet and we shouldn't have the cloud cover issue. I know the clouds issue was instituted because of the refusal of some squads not keeping altitude realistic in the various planes.)

These are some of the bomber lessons we've learned over the years and we hope you'll build them into the mission.

F69 is a good target. It will take a long time to get to it. Will the fighters have enough fuel for the ride and be able to stay with us? They will expect us to hit it from that NW approach because we always do it. Kinda makes me a little nervous.

Here's a thought: if we make sure that we always come on dar 60 mins after the frame begins, they won't know which point we will be ingressing. So, even when we have short hops, we wait the full 60-mins. before heading into our targets. It forces them to burn 60-mins. of fuel gives our home front fighters the chance to find their bombers. It will drive their scouts crazy. All it means is that we plan our routes to make it happen.

Suggested Target combinations for each frame: (targets and frames can be shuffled)
1) L69, L70
2) L55, L56
3) L71, L72
4) L88, L90
5) L75, L92

The frame selection for each set of targets helps us by pushing them back away from our frontline. We can keep our own fields protected, while our bombers climb to altitude before crossing over into enemy territory.

Thanks for considering <S>

Thanks for clarifying the targets and base fields. Here's an updated route picture to 69 and possibly to 70. Distances are pretty much the same 290 miles to 69, 311 to 70.
I have not shown an exit line, perhaps head back the same way or what ever seems sensible at the time. DTF is also attached. Another DTF is also attached which plots perimeter DAR (Note I have only taken the outer most coastal points so its a little bit give or take.

Also would like to add fighter support is going to be a must. Lancs or Not: From another thread:



~S~
-noflyz

Darryl:

I'm not planning on let the buffs unescorted. But we need to remember that the enemy will try to close our bases over Continental Europe and I just can't let them do it unopposed.

Now, thinking practically about the points:

1) So far I'm only "sure" the Libs can close 1 LAF: that's 15 points. we're risking 70 points (10 raiders buffs + 4 Nomads Times 5 each buff)) to get 15.

2) Each enemy AI JU52 downed give us 3 points. But How many can we kill in one frame?

So, I'm thinking right now that's better not loose any buffs, than risking our chances deploying 1 dedicated FG to AI hunting. That would be at least 34 Fighters (plus DR's escorts) dedicated to clear the skies for the heavies. Is it good enough?

Than the FG left would be responsible to defend our front line, and maybe provide some escort for the Night Stakers.

What do you guys think?

Salute!

DR is right. And Noflyz has a decent route!!! Thanks, man.

Tried F69 from 23K using 1000 pounders, salvo 2 on one hangar it didn't go down. Cranes went down with same salvo at the port, then flew to 70 and dropped a single on oil tanks with no luck. ToT was about T+72

No way can the buffs take 2 LAF's on one mission.

We must have two pilots drop on each tgt and use all our ord. And then we won't even know if we did our job for maybe three days. With a dozen tgts at each field, and apparent hardness of the hangars and such, this is gonna be a tuff nut to crack.

I'll try using 1600 pounders, but our RoC will be about 400 ft/min even at 110% power, and we'll need extra gas. I might try jetting an egg above 1500 feet to get better climb, then have 7 eggs left.

For DR: I used 100% power at 160 mph and 30% gas, 8 x 1000. Weight is EVERYTHING for climb rate. Speed helps, as we get more lifties with speed. Climb range more important than climbing at best angle, ya think?

Gotta take frau for dinner ( anniversary), but will try to get back.
+++++++++++++++++

Ain't nothing like close escort for the buffs. The LW gets 5 points per buff, and the damned LAF's only gets us 15 points. You do the math. Don't think the ack counts for kills, but if it does, then we are in a deep pile of doo doo.

The cranes could get us points if they are "legal". And I am getting upset about all the restrictions. "Gotta calm down, man", I tell myself.

Gums sends...

SE-PUA:
We thinking on same line, sir. 34 fighters sounds good to us. You have a good plan, sir. Let's run with it. My hope is that we'll get our full number of steps fleshed out for the event. Working on that now.

NOFLYZ has created a dtf for the bomber raid. I think we can get L69 and L70, but if the guns count as structures, may as well have us all in some sort of strike task. They aren't normally considered for base closure in the S3, so I hope it is not so in this series. When will JABO tell us about them?

I think it is silly to risk 70 points for 15, GUMS. You are exactly right, sir.

<S>

First, happy anniversary, sir. Mine is on Tuesday (Jan 7) and it is #30.

OK, gotta take 1600lbs bombs to get the job done. If we have enough bombers, we can take down two large fields. If not, we take down one field. No biggie.

<S>

A/C are listed in the table.
Pilots just have to fly two a/c types in the series. What ever ratio of frames they want. They can fly more of the listed types but basically you are going to have to fly 1 frame in a ride other the squad mainstay(for most the P51D or B24J).

LAFs are easy to close with not too many structures thus the low point total. Remember AAA and tower are not counted for destruction.
Ships are moving and may be Freighters or DD2s, the only two AI ship types that work.
Aircraft will be random Ju52s near the indicated travel lines or various types parked at some all or none of the LAFs. So fighters may have another mission rather than just escort or CAP.