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PostPosted: Thu Jan 15, 2015 9:07 pm 
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Joined: Tue Nov 12, 2013 2:12 am
Posts: 245
Location: Palo Alto, CA
If I remember correctly the 109 scouts were on the group before we broke DAR.

What is the plan to neutralize the scouts from foiling the feint?


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 15, 2015 11:14 pm 
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Joined: Sat Nov 09, 2013 3:00 pm
Posts: 672
Location: Florida
Salute!

Looks good Muskie.

We do not need that long to green. I figure about 15 miles, but lead has to strt turn early and be gentle.

Mobile now, will get back later.

Gums send...


"God in your guts, good men at your back, wings that stay on - and Tally Ho!"


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 16, 2015 12:05 am 
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Joined: Tue Apr 01, 2014 1:09 pm
Posts: 571
Location: Northern Minnesota
OhShix wrote:
If I remember correctly the 109 scouts were on the group before we broke DAR.

What is the plan to neutralize the scouts from foiling the feint?


No feint this frame. Up the gut.


<S!>
MuskyZ
Newest member of the 4th

No bastard ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making the other poor dumb bastard die for his country.
George S. Patton


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 16, 2015 12:07 am 
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Joined: Tue Apr 01, 2014 1:09 pm
Posts: 571
Location: Northern Minnesota
Gums wrote:
Salute!

Looks good Muskie.

We do not need that long to green. I figure about 15 miles, but lead has to strt turn early and be gentle.

Mobile now, will get back later.

Gums send...


Starting to look like a plan.

Todd? Hawk? Nofly? Is this the plan? 39 and 40?


<S!>
MuskyZ
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No bastard ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making the other poor dumb bastard die for his country.
George S. Patton


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 16, 2015 1:36 am 
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Joined: Tue Nov 12, 2013 12:08 am
Posts: 77
23rd in p47s


Commanding Officer
23rd Fighter Group

Hitman


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 16, 2015 2:07 am 
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Joined: Sat Nov 09, 2013 2:56 pm
Posts: 191
Ok if 23rd is in Jugs, 4th will go with Ponies.


pappyb
CO 4th FG
http://echoesmarketing.com/4thfg/


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 16, 2015 5:59 am 
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Joined: Thu Nov 21, 2013 10:58 pm
Posts: 341
MuskieZZ wrote:
Gums wrote:
Salute!

Looks good Muskie.

We do not need that long to green. I figure about 15 miles, but lead has to strt turn early and be gentle.

Mobile now, will get back later.

Gums send...


Starting to look like a plan.

Todd? Hawk? Nofly? Is this the plan? 39 and 40?


Yes totally. FIY I have submitted to jabo an AI routine that hits target 39 and it flies like this:

Image

While he has not agreed to use it yet, I keep my fingers crossed ;-D :P :P :mrgreen:


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 16, 2015 8:54 am 
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Joined: Sat Nov 09, 2013 1:30 am
Posts: 187
OhShix wrote:
If I remember correctly the 109 scouts were on the group before we broke DAR.

What is the plan to neutralize the scouts from foiling the feint?


Sorry guys, real life is a bitch.

OK, the strippers were on us mid channel. I would like to release one group that will be waiting for them with a slightly lower fuel state that will shoot them ALL down. The strippers have been able to harass the escorts getting the them out of formation/drops tanks for low fuel/etc, which takes away escorts over Berlin. Then the strippers have for the most-part survived, only to come back and kill again.

I would like to see the strippers dead, with the forward sweep RTB for an ASAP return for escort.

352nd = P-51B
4th = P-51B
23rd = P-47
Knights = P-47


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 16, 2015 1:27 pm 
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Posts: 213
I posted this idea on the 352nd board but need the bomber guys feed back for timing.

Quote:
I was thinking....

Because the axis knows exactly where we have to go to bomb targets, I think a direct as possible route to the target is best. This exposes the bombers the shortest amount of time and maximizes our fighter coverage. There might be an exception to this. I noticed most of the axis fighters attacked over multiple sorties. They first interceptors also met the bombers over the channel. The German A/C can be based initially anywhere in Germany. I'm not sure if the timing will allow it, but if we follow roughly the same ingress route to target as Frame 3 with all the allied fighters surrounding the bombers, and if they try to initially attack us over the channel again, we might surprise them. We start by having our own scouts in an arc ahead of the bombers. We also have most of our fighters over the bombers above 30k. As soon as any group of enemy fighters is spotted, the bombers would execute a 180 degree turn and continue climbing, but towards England. All our fighters would try to take out many of the initial intercept group as quickly as we can. The fighters would then RTB. With a 20k airstart, the fighters would then rejoin the bombers which would execute another 180 degree turn east towards their bombing targets. From there, it would be a normal escort mission.

This would only help us if the axis was aggressive and met us over the channel. I'm not sure how much of window we would have to engage the enemy. Worst case scenario, they don't come out, and the fighters just RTB to refuel and rejoin the bombers.

If we do manage to take out some enemy fighters, they won't have as many A/C to hit the bombers with later. We get the advantage of using our planes twice, effectively doubling the amount of ammo we have to hit them with. We also hit them as hard as we can, knowing we don't have to conserve our remaining ammo for the rest of the frame. To lengthen the window we'd have available to intercept the axis, the bombers would have to take off as soon as possible (T-30), and the fighters would go up without drop tanks on the first sortie. Depending on the timing, at a certain point all the fighters must RTB to reroll with drop tanks and escort the bombers to Berlin, whether we engage the enemy or not.

Pros, cons, opinions?


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 16, 2015 3:14 pm 
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Joined: Tue Apr 01, 2014 1:09 pm
Posts: 571
Location: Northern Minnesota
We have tried to come up with a double back but we just don't have time. If we fly east 15min, we loose 30min that we just dont have.

We have done this in the past on other ETO events but then we hit targets on the west (city 77, city 78...). With us being forced to hit Berlin we have about 10min. to play with, maybe 15, but thats it, otherwise we wouldn't be lifting at T-20.

I think its a good idea but don't know how to make it work.

This in my option only.


<S!>
MuskyZ
Newest member of the 4th

No bastard ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making the other poor dumb bastard die for his country.
George S. Patton


Last edited by MuskieZZ on Fri Jan 16, 2015 3:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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