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 Post subject: Frame 3 AAR
PostPosted: Wed Apr 15, 2015 4:26 am 
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Joined: Sun Nov 10, 2013 5:08 pm
Posts: 750
475th had the island tour on sortie 1.

RTB'd for fuel to ensure we would have enough for buffs second sortie.

Were heading NW, when LF6 was told they couldn't go any closer than 10 miles to the safe area...or is that the safe safe area?

Turned West, LF6 called engaged with many and we headed at best speed toward their location. Found the many, and they proceeded to shred us.

23rd was with us until we headed South...never saw them again in the frame.

Once again our fighters got piecemealed by the big wing.

Recommend we fly together in Frame 4 so that doesn't happen again....all 3 FG from the axis were in our fight...and I'm assuming were what hit LF6 as well.

Cheerio!

Dobs


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 Post subject: Re: Frame 3 AAR
PostPosted: Wed Apr 15, 2015 1:01 pm 
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Joined: Sat Nov 09, 2013 2:42 pm
Posts: 392
We squirted out of 11 with 100% fuel headed south. Turned west down the 2 line and then postulated where the CV may be, based on homing beacon exfil of buffs. They pretty much led us to it though we never actually had eyes on the CV. Our intention was, if we were lucky, ping the buffs before they tried landing as surely half of them would crash and be killed with damage thus negating freebees. We had no intention of striking the CVs or fighting close enough to be in the ack.

Rules of engagement said CVs could not be attacked, but no no-fly zone was established like last series. Calling an Ollie oxen free mid engagement was horseshit so we pursued the enemy who ran for the vertical 2 line. I caught Jlord who was shadowing us underneath before he reached the line and dolch pursued vulche across 2 line south of the reported CV position and dispatched him. No CV was ever in proximity of those engagements. Unfortunately autopilot and unfamiliarity put two of ours in the drink with that engagement.

With approximately 50% fuel left, the P-40B still refused to go above 25k ft. The zeros were at 35k ft the whole time and ran into the rest of LF 6 as they came from the island responding to the shouts of their fallen comrades. They are utilizing the Zeke fuel burn to stay airborne the entire frame and were free roaming much like we were doing on our turn. If we had a little better luck with timing we probably would have caught the buffs with little escort. LF 6 almost escaped the 352nd initial contact diving, but they managed to keep those zeros with reach, had to be shaking like mad. We probably would have made it to the island if the 4th didn't also latch on forcing a turn situation so we had to make a stand.


<S>
Zinhwk

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zinhwk@fly-jg77.com


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 Post subject: Re: Frame 3 AAR
PostPosted: Thu Apr 16, 2015 7:21 pm 
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Joined: Tue May 13, 2014 9:25 pm
Posts: 661
zinhwk wrote:
We squirted out of 11 with 100% fuel headed south. Turned west down the 2 line and then postulated where the CV may be, based on homing beacon exfil of buffs. They pretty much led us to it though we never actually had eyes on the CV. Our intention was, if we were lucky, ping the buffs before they tried landing as surely half of them would crash and be killed with damage thus negating freebees. We had no intention of striking the CVs or fighting close enough to be in the ack.

Rules of engagement said CVs could not be attacked, but no no-fly zone was established like last series. Calling an Ollie oxen free mid engagement was horseshit so we pursued the enemy who ran for the vertical 2 line. I caught Jlord who was shadowing us underneath before he reached the line and dolch pursued vulche across 2 line south of the reported CV position and dispatched him. No CV was ever in proximity of those engagements. Unfortunately autopilot and unfamiliarity put two of ours in the drink with that engagement.

With approximately 50% fuel left, the P-40B still refused to go above 25k ft. The zeros were at 35k ft the whole time and ran into the rest of LF 6 as they came from the island responding to the shouts of their fallen comrades. They are utilizing the Zeke fuel burn to stay airborne the entire frame and were free roaming much like we were doing on our turn. If we had a little better luck with timing we probably would have caught the buffs with little escort. LF 6 almost escaped the 352nd initial contact diving, but they managed to keep those zeros with reach, had to be shaking like mad. We probably would have made it to the island if the 4th didn't also latch on forcing a turn situation so we had to make a stand.


I get the feeling Jabo told the Japs we were ignoring their fighter CAP over Oahu and were on offense out over the ocean. I am sure he directed them to our position.

Pretty silly frame with the Japs totally ignoring the historical context of the series and playing "Wild Weasels over the 'Nam" with the radar towers but that is a side effect of stupid dar settings of 15 miles.

The short of it is the other side are flying in one large group and we aren't and numbers win. They did it in frame 2 with the 475 going up against all three fighter groups and again this frame with LF6 tangling with all three followed shortly by the 475 doing the same.

It is a fundamental principle that numbers at the point of contact is critical.

As Nathan Bedford Forrest eloquently put it, "Get there firstest with the mostest"

We can depend on the strike groups to be predictable so we should be able to hit them hard at 15K 30 miles west of Pearl at about T+30 give or take 7 minutes (5,2 X to 6,2 X)

I wish I could be there.


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 Post subject: Re: Frame 3 AAR
PostPosted: Fri Apr 17, 2015 1:10 am 
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Joined: Sat Nov 09, 2013 12:29 am
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Finding ourselves capped in both locations by Zeroes, the 23rd was directed to take the field on the east side of Oahu. Climbing out, we were directed to the 475th's position north of the island. When they were had them in sight, they were rtb for fuel. Having achieved 20+K, we decided to loiter and try to catch the B5Ns on the second sortie. We met up again with the 475th at alt and they forged out in front with thier superior speed/range. As LF6 called engagement, we trailed the 475th in that direction but were to far to assist in that furball (best guess is @20miles). As it became apparent in the buffer that the big wing with superior aircraft prevailed, the 23rd returned to our original plan figuring that a bunch of zekes would rtb with fuel/ammo/damage issues and hoping to spot the 2nd Kate sortie. When a low flight of zekes was seen and fuel becoming a serious issue, we commited to attacking them. Unfortunately, we suffered a squad-wide comms issue and lost voice as we went into the attack. They scattered and cohesion was lost, allowing most to escape the bounce (they went in all directions). Using our high speed, we stayed in front (mostly) of zeroes in hot pursuit all the way to F12. The 23rd expresses appreciation for those brave aviators that came up to assist us when we called out we were dragging home.

IMHO, fighting 1 on 1 a 'big wing' that also has superior numbers is a lose/lose situation, especially if they can disengage simply by climbing away or running you out of fuel. Beating zeroes handled by talented aviators is a great adrenaline rush, but the only way to hurt the axis this frame is to find and destroy the Kates. It takes away points from them (2 sorties of targets) and adds to ours. I believe this should be the focus in the next frame, especially since the ack (hopefully) will be actually shooting (only saw the 88's popping off in Frame I) and may deter zekes from strafing. We need to be better on our com's as well....


Sasquatch"
=sqtc=
23rd Fighter Group
CO


"You know you loaded too much fuel only when you see fire" :P


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 Post subject: Re: Frame 3 AAR
PostPosted: Fri Apr 17, 2015 11:43 am 

Joined: Fri Nov 08, 2013 9:36 pm
Posts: 191
Thanks Sasquatch. Saspin, Skuzzr, and I were the only remaining pilots of the 475th. We knew that the 3 of us would not be enough to make a difference in the frame, but thought perhaps we could at least make a difference in preventing the IJN from getting additional easy kills. We rolled and as soon as your trailing Zekes saw us, they broke off and headed back to the northwest. We were gaining quickly on them and intended to make a "1 pass and out" on them. Luckily, just before we committed to our attack on them, we spotted about 7/8 of their friends high, headed our way. We quickly reversed and pointed our noses back toward our field. We managed to get down just before they could put guns on us. Still not sure how Skuzzr managed to land, as it looked like he was a dead duck they were so close to him. Glad we were all able to land without being vulched. :)

Pretty dissappointed with our efforts this series :(


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