S3 Series

Thought I'd share something that will help understand the bomber's predicament.



Don't use a magnifying glass until you have given it a fair try.

I have bombed these targets from 25-30K, but it ain't easy.

<S>

I'd post picture from our fighters' perspective, but I can't because we're all dead.


*EDIT*

I apologize if my posts have seemed derogatory in nature. It's not my intent. My intent is to try to make sure that we are viewing this series from a correct point of view. Nobody has it easy this series. We do need to figure out how to gain points without offering up sacrificial lambs for the slaughter in the process... bombers or fighters.

Besea is the CO for frame 2 (?). I have no doubt that whatever assignment is handed to us, the leadership of the 4th FG will hold our feet to the fire and charge us with doing the job to the very best of our ability.

Simple fact stated for many years by many pilots "Alt is Life"
Altitude gives you options, one of those options is 'speed'. Another is reaction time.
I'll throw some #s up so you all can see what I'm referring to.

Max speed at alt with wep (in IAS with @50% fuel loaded ie: fighting weight)
deck 15k 20k
C202 314 287 267
109 G2 332 302 286

Spit IX 313 291 279
P-38F 311 291 280

Loaded with 500lbs's and 50% fuel
B-25D 251 241 187

I didn't enter the #s for the 190 A-4 or the Spit V because we all know where they would fall.

Time for 109 G2 to get to 15K :188sec (that's just over 3 minutes gents)

So what does this all say? Simple.............the speed difference between the enemy fighters and our B25's is significantly lower very low, ie: on the deck. However, the Spitfire and P-38 are inferior in performance that low, only @20k do they become competitive.

Summary: Send in the bombers low significantly helps their accuracy, but an escort will find extreme difficulty in protecting them due to aircraft performance and reaction time. Sending in the bombers high reduces the accuracy of thier bombing but significantly raises thier survival chance if an escort is with them. History can tell us a lot, note the allies in Europe decided Survival over Accuracy (IE:bombing with alt).

One final note: This map is very compact, distances are small between enemy airfields. It doesn't take long to react to a sighting so if it were my choice, I'd rather be at altitude where my groundspeed is faster and I can make tracks if I need to.

Salute!

I don't see an easy way to make it "easy" for our escorts. It is what it is. Even if we could get to 15K in the Mitchells, we can't hit what we can't see.

I am leaning to Bombr's idea of dashing in, then dashing out. Coordinate, re-group, and then rinse, repeat.

Also agree with Bombr that a long, protracted tour may not be the way to go. This is a tactical scenario, after all. I was surprised we did as well as we did on the one long run we made. Super escort saved the day, seems to me.

Our buffs have hours of gas, even at high power settings, so we can do this. We might also have more help at our bases to hit the attacking Knights, who did well in Frame 1.

What say you, Darryl?

Gums opines....

I do have allot for ideas reguarding this issues. I would of loved to had this discussion over TS last night but I was the only on to sit in allied S3 command channel last night for 2 1/2 hours..alone..
I have a grand idea to use in this small map configuration. I really need to discuss my ideas because DECPTION and TIMING are crucial to plans success.
And keep attacking hard all night but never in same place or direction twice kep jumping around the map..dont linger over a tgt area..get in get out..dont try do not add to many tgt's.that will cause you to linger around in a area waiting to close 4, 5, 6, or 7 tgt in one run..too much time over tgt'd area..to easy for enemy to react.
So ill ask again..8.00pm cst Allied command TS chl..

Salute!

TNX, Besea.

Sorry I couldn't make the discussion Thursday night.

Gums sends...

ALLIES MUST BE REAL ESTATE COLLECTORS
Here's my point I made for frame 1, which was confirmed by JABO, we MUST hit many more outposts and arty for the volume of points vs. hitting just an airfield. For every point difference above the AXIS, we pick up a piece of real estate.

Bomber Mission Options: (All depends upon number of bombs/bombers)

Short GAF Runs (including a few Outpost/Arty
81 (GAF), 73 (arty), 72 (outpost) rtb = 12 points
83 (GAF), 66 (arty), 33, 71 (outposts) rtb = 15 points
85 (GAF), 42, 43, 44 (outposts) rtb = 14 points
20 (GAF), 41 (outpost), 21 (town) rtb = 13 points
91 (GAF), 62 (outpost) rtb = 8 points
26 (GAF), 27 (town), 57 (outpost) rtb = 13 points

GAF (5 points each), Arty (4 points each), Outposts (3 points each)

Notes:
1. The remaining GAFs are different than F80. They have more targets and will require more bombs to close. Targets are scattered around the GAF area.
2. If the situation allows, we may be able to pick up additional outposts with each of the above options. Without enemy contact or low enemy contact, so long as we have bombers/bombs in the air, we can adjust each mission on the fly.
3. May require a little more time over targets.
4. Most likely won't get another run in the same area and therefore, it will take longer for the second sortie mission, if we get one.

Outpost/Arty Runs (like frame 1)

72, 73, 31, 32, 74, 66, 33, 71, 34 = 26 points
44, 43, 42, 41, 20 = 17 points (includes possible GAF)
62, 91, 56, 51, 50, 57 = 20 points (includes possible GAF)

Notes:
1. The risk is higher because of longer missions.
2. The rewards could be up to twice the points.

Questions:
1. How many fighters would be necessary to cover our tanks and shipping? How many of their a/c were used to grab those 3 ships and 17 tanks?
2. Where were the enemy bombers/fighters based in frame 1? Where would they most likely be based in frame 2? What makes most sense?
3. Who did they dedicate to protecting their bombers? What was the mission of the rest of their forces?

In the very first S3 I flew there was a Buff guy named Mrbang flying with us. I was with the 69th at the time. It was a tactical campaign just like this one. He stated that we should take the b25s in no more than groups of 2 or 3. Fly em on the deck and be extra sneaky hitting our targets, get in and get out, no lingering not even one extra pass. If we got attacked to scatter.

I think this tactic would be good here. That way if enemy gets into one group the rest can abort/ divert and our losses drastically reduced while the enemy has sacrificed altitude and become vulnerable.

For those that dont know of Mrbang, I think he is top ranking bomber in the s6 in many, many categories. In fact his stats are downright unbelievable.

We have done that very thing before in this map in a past frame on this map as Timos has stated. 2 or 3 low bombers across the entire front.

The idea is to spread the focus and the only planes on Dar is our lites which have a fighting chance to live for more than 30 seconds once spotted. The B25 D have para Frag bombs x60 they are really effective at hard targets like airfields. Low fast multiple strikes, get in get out and wait then rinse and repeat.

Mulitiple flights can hit 1 or 2 post for a close then they can go after an airfield hitting it from differnt directions at differnt times. Heck you could even add a couple of B17 flights up high to add to the clutter.

IMHO: flying with 25 b25s in a big circle on the map at 8k hitting multiple little posts is a waste of potential and a big huge buffet for the enemy

Salute!

Hey, Artty!!!!

That's what Besea is thinking for Sunday's frame.

First mission being discussed (F84) will require all of us, but then we could go with the smaller flights.

Gotta check the ack again, but seems last week we had a buncha 88's scattered here and there which could be a problem.


Gums sends...