S3 Series

Formation flying is not a simple thing.
Much has been said and I’ll try not to duplicate.
Leader - must fly slower than they want to.
Pilots will always be out of position and need to catch up. WEP is NOT to be used for this. You need time and patience, that is the beauty of a known racetrack climbing pattern. When you can plan on an upcoming turn you are able to use angles and not speed.

Note: Gums was always a proponent of jettisoning 1bomb to weigh less for climb

Flying from bombardier position makes things much easier.


Aar myself:
Long night of head on swivel. A few cons on ingress but others were in position so Muskyz and I stayed with buff group 2 for majority of flight.
With group 2 being spread out and elements of bg1 trying to catch up we had to try and look everywhere. Saw a dot approaching a buff so I dove in to find a 262 that got hit by gunners and was trailing white smoke. I pursued all out and was able to land rounds to damage an engine. He dove away and I couldn’t stay with him but he then blew up and I was awarded a kill.
Back to bombers eventually made the long trek back to base trying to cover Darryl. Instead of landing I headed back and saw a dogfight below. Long hard look I decided to join in. I didn’t realize I had been in a shallow dive so my dive in quickly over stressed a wing and boom I’m in the silk. In self directed anger and embarrassment I rode the chute down and was captured. I logged out then as time was about up.

Coolon et al, I don't see the reason why a lead aircraft has to continually fly slower. If we all airstart at roughly the same time, and we did btw, there shouldn't be any reason for a group becoming so spread out if:

we all have the same fuel load
we all have the same bomb load
we all have the same power settings
we all follow the same heading
we all fly at the same altitude
climb speed settings are the same

Apart from the issue of being heavily laden, when I slowed down, within a few seconds, the stall warner was indicating too slow a speed, so I had the choice of level flight and 120 indicated or drop like a lead balloon.

My only conclusion is that we had different weights caused by incorrect fuel settings which is why I asked that fuel loads be automatically set for everyone as some did have difficulties for one reason or another. It was evident we were not all flying in the same way despite calling out power settings, headings, altitudes, etc. As mentioned, formation flying is not so easy and we obviously don't practice or have the opportunity to practice anything like enough. It's a point Darryl and I briefly discussed but with all due respect, getting sufficient numbers online at other times is like herding cats.

We can only work with what we have and if that means bomber streams are more like individual flight sorties that present easier targets for axis fighters, then we will continue to come off badly. It has nothing to do with anything other than people's experience in flying a simulated bomber in formation for a long time.

Phil

Phil,
There has to be some “give” in the flight lead... the pilots following must have some ability to overtake / catch up. Undoubtedly someone will be afk or bank too hard bleeding speed and need to catch up. Last frame was probably the most extreme flight profile in my experience in s3s. Meaning the b17s were asked to fly the aircraft closer to the edge & higher than previously done. Going straight in also... so I understand the power needs. Perhaps 90% at level flight for 5 min might be possible? It takes a lot of patience. You are correct about fuel and bomb loads, there is no way to recover in flight with no ability to dump fuel. I think it would be a good idea to plan on having 2 formation turns planned to allow lagging buffs to catch up. They would only be used if the lead pilot deems it necessary.

3 lives with the ability for all to fly a me163 is definitely stacking the odds for the axis. Bomber pilots bear the brunt of frustration. I know we all want to be successful so please take the suggestions here Into consideration and use what you deem appropriate. Wep and flight models have changed since I flew a lot of buff missions so your experiences I would give much more weight to.

<S>

Having been flight lead many times, I would say the lead should ideally be 10% below the throttle you tell your wingmen to use. 5% throttle below can also work if the wingmen are experienced and disciplined. To have the lead at the same throttle as the wingmen never seems to work and causes a strung out formation. The lead usually flies a straight line, while wingmen keep making small adjustments, go AFK etc, and every twitch eats their speed. Also if they are a bit below the lead then it might mean their altitude gives them a lower top speed.

A few tips from my experience, as being flight lead takes a lot of practice and learning:
* When you are lead and want to fly at max cruise, then 90-95% throttle usually works well. The wingmen can then fly at 100% and use bst1 to close the gap when needed.

* When flying at Bst1 I've learnt a trick. You first set your throttle to 95%. After this you go Bst1 without moving the throttle. You will then be at 95% of Bst1, meaning that if Bst1 normally is 125%, you'll be at 119%. This gives your wingmen the necessary percent extra throttle to keep in formation with you without falling behind from making small adjustments. If your wingmen are inexperienced then it might be better to set your throttle to 90%, and then go Bst1.

* If you risk stalling when reducing throttle to allow wingmen to catch up, then it's probably better to settle for a 1000 ft lower altitude. An assembled formation is more worth than being slightly higher or getting to target a few minutes faster. If the formation is strung out then it can be necessary to go 80% throttle until all are back together and then push it up again.

* If someone took the wrong loadout then it's not much you can do to keep them in formation. The best thing is probably to after take-off, ask everyone to report their loadout and fuel. If someone got it wrong, have them land and re-up ASAP while you make an extra circle and fly at lower throttle until they are back.

* Alternatively if time is of the essense, tell the people with to much fuel how much your plane currently weighs. Order them to drop one bomb at a time until they weigh the same.


<S>
/Robert

As lead, I fly anywhere from 80%-95%.

Also have the trailers level out while anyone out front keeps climbing. The increased speed should help them catch up. The 4th uses this quite often.