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Banzai! Salute!

Well, I have to mention that close escort does not require more than 2K of altitude, "sitting on the perch". You can easily gain 50 mph or even 100 mph by the time you reach the buff altitude and the pesky enema.

Second, better to be at 5 or 7 than 12 or dead 6. Better look about and less degrees of turn to get on the enema lites. 3 and 9 aren't bad, but seems to me that 5 and 7 are better.

The enema lite that hurts the buffs the most is the one that converts from a HO or makes a slashing attack and then does the B&Z thing and is back on our 6 without any interference from our 'lil friends. Then dives away. Would seem to me that a close escort could really screw up that procedure unless the dude is a suicide type. You don't need to get a kill!!! You just have to keep HIM from getting a kill on ME!!

Lastly, the buffs have to fly at realistic and effective altitudes. We can't do squat up in the stratosphere except in big buffs and large formations. Low alt is both good and bad, depending upon the ord we are using and the ack. Low is also bad for our escorts, as we have seen for last 16 years in these things ( the lites like the stratosphere, from what I have seen). Medium altitude helps to reduce the ack effectiveness, keep our speed up and help accuracy. You do not want to make a re-attack!!!

Enuf philosophy, so I go practice.

Gums-san opines....

Author:	MuskieZZ [ Sat Mar 28, 2015 4:42 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Proper Escort Doctrine and this Frame in particular
Dawger, You bring up a lot of good points. The issue I have is two fold. #1 - buffs can't go in NOE. The ack will clean up on us and I am sure the AL will have a squad down low to intercept the torpedo guys. It will not be a surprise that we are going to the harbor to sink boats. That is where all the points are at. #2 - Going it at 25K after the fighters clear Oahu has huge implications. a) we only get one run b) is totally unrealistic and c) reduces the buff accuracy. Yes, going in at 25K would give us a huge advantage but we are not flying B17's. These are mid altitude bombers, going in at mid altitude. They did it during the war and were provided with escort and I think then they were usually around 5K. If you think you can sweep forward and make the skies clear, then do it. There is plenty of time, if you want, to get to Oahu 10 min. before the buffs. Thats why I put Dobs in charge of your escort. Do what you think is best. It is getting very frustrating when we can't get close escorts for the buff's. Yes, you will take more loses than if you are at 25K. That is for sure. Some squads will do it and others wont. I know you are just trying to do the best you can for your guys. I am just trying to provide a plan that is somewhat realistic, even if only barely, and allows everyone to fly and have fun. This is not a Thursday Night Fight (I really need to attend one of those) but is suppose to be a buff series. We need to make it happen.

Author:	Hawk [ Sat Mar 28, 2015 5:10 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Proper Escort Doctrine and this Frame in particular
Taking a Kate with torps to 25k is nuts. We have to descend in order to drop our torps. At 15k, this gives the fighters the alt they need to cover us and this has worked in the past.

Author:	Gums [ Sat Mar 28, 2015 5:57 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Proper Escort Doctrine and this Frame in particular
Banzai! Salute! Well, I have to mention that close escort does not require more than 2K of altitude, "sitting on the perch". You can easily gain 50 mph or even 100 mph by the time you reach the buff altitude and the pesky enema. Second, better to be at 5 or 7 than 12 or dead 6. Better look about and less degrees of turn to get on the enema lites. 3 and 9 aren't bad, but seems to me that 5 and 7 are better. The enema lite that hurts the buffs the most is the one that converts from a HO or makes a slashing attack and then does the B&Z thing and is back on our 6 without any interference from our 'lil friends. Then dives away. Would seem to me that a close escort could really screw up that procedure unless the dude is a suicide type. You don't need to get a kill!!! You just have to keep HIM from getting a kill on ME!! Lastly, the buffs have to fly at realistic and effective altitudes. We can't do squat up in the stratosphere except in big buffs and large formations. Low alt is both good and bad, depending upon the ord we are using and the ack. Low is also bad for our escorts, as we have seen for last 16 years in these things ( the lites like the stratosphere, from what I have seen). Medium altitude helps to reduce the ack effectiveness, keep our speed up and help accuracy. You do not want to make a re-attack!!! Enuf philosophy, so I go practice. Gums-san opines....

Author:	dawger [ Sat Mar 28, 2015 6:47 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Proper Escort Doctrine and this Frame in particular
Gums wrote: Banzai! Salute! Well, I have to mention that close escort does not require more than 2K of altitude, "sitting on the perch". You can easily gain 50 mph or even 100 mph by the time you reach the buff altitude and the pesky enema. Second, better to be at 5 or 7 than 12 or dead 6. Better look about and less degrees of turn to get on the enema lites. 3 and 9 aren't bad, but seems to me that 5 and 7 are better. The enema lite that hurts the buffs the most is the one that converts from a HO or makes a slashing attack and then does the B&Z thing and is back on our 6 without any interference from our 'lil friends. Then dives away. Would seem to me that a close escort could really screw up that procedure unless the dude is a suicide type. You don't need to get a kill!!! You just have to keep HIM from getting a kill on ME!! Lastly, the buffs have to fly at realistic and effective altitudes. We can't do squat up in the stratosphere except in big buffs and large formations. Low alt is both good and bad, depending upon the ord we are using and the ack. Low is also bad for our escorts, as we have seen for last 16 years in these things ( the lites like the stratosphere, from what I have seen). Medium altitude helps to reduce the ack effectiveness, keep our speed up and help accuracy. You do not want to make a re-attack!!! Enuf philosophy, so I go practice. Gums-san opines.... 12 O'clock close escort is to take a head on shot at the head on attackers. 6 o'clock escort is to suppress the head on attackers from zooming high AFTER the HO pass. 3 and 9 o'clock escorts are to engage the enemy trying to climb and regain a HO position for another attack. You need all 4 (minimum 4 fighters in each spot ) PLUS 3 groups of REMOTE escort beyond visual range. At a minimum 28 disciplined fighters. All of these are AREAS of responsibly and not single points of defense. As an example the 6 o'clock close escort is arrayed in combat spread covering the entire rear hemisphere of the strike formation. Escort flying in Girl Scout Trail formation is worse than useless. 3 and 9 are covering the pass off from the 6 o'clock guys, forcing the enemy to go outside visual range to get back into position. The 12 o'clock close escort is also arrayed in combat spread and set up to bracket the incoming attackers and achieve early guns solutions from the bracket. This forces the enemy to turn off his attack heading to face the threat or to choose to allow the enemy offensive position as he maintains his attack heading on the strike formation. Of course, this requires a close escort that KNOWS how to setup an offensive bracket and EXECUTE the lead turn require to effectively threaten the attackers

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Author:	dawger [ Sat Mar 28, 2015 2:32 pm ]
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