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 Post subject: Frame 3 Observations
PostPosted: Mon Mar 02, 2015 4:32 am 
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Joined: Sat Nov 09, 2013 7:15 am
Posts: 917
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Gents:
Thanks to the 23rd FG and the 4th FG for the support. All things considered, I'd say we did pretty well with the rides we had and the opposition we faced. <S>

Enemy Target Choice

You gotta give the bad guys credit for target recon. They closed two bases. Both are radar installations which each have only one required target. Accordingly, they score the lowest of available target fields.

Image

Image

12. Closed Bases - bases closed during a frame 1 will only stay closed & destroyed for frame 2. Fields closed during frame 3 will stay closed & destroyed for frame 4.

There remains a functional radome at F-31. That makes our radar to the east a tad compromised, but certainly not absent.


Happy trails...
Wolf
XO 352nd Fighter Group (virtual)

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Last edited by dewolf on Mon Mar 02, 2015 9:56 am, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Frame 3 Observations
PostPosted: Mon Mar 02, 2015 5:18 am 
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Joined: Sat Nov 09, 2013 2:43 am
Posts: 210
Wolfman,

Very appropriate picture selection. :shock: Thank you for the outstanding job leading the frame. Your positioning and constant GCI was a huge help.

Not to state the obvious but this scenario is difficult for the Emporer's defenders. The IJN is not going to win a slug fest with the USN. The enemy picks when and where he will strike, and can leave the fight at any time. We can just nibble around the edges and make them pay for their mistakes.

Seemed like the Yanks layered their attacks with high, medium, and low escorts for most the frame. Very disciplined. Never saw a bomber group. Heard reports the TBD's were 20k. That seems too high to be effective.

Not sure what we could have done any better.

Thanks again Wolf! <S>

Oskar


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 Post subject: Re: Frame 3 Observations
PostPosted: Wed Mar 04, 2015 2:47 am 
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Joined: Thu Nov 14, 2013 7:09 pm
Posts: 620
<S> Wolf, thanks for taking the big chair and it was nice to see the 352nd racking up some kills in the buffer.

From what I could observe in frame 3, they play the big wing (hindsight is the best teacher :-) ). Just sitting at a location (like F20) and daring us to come attack them. My 4 cents for frame 4 is we should avoid a full engagement with their meat grinder, as the zero is potent, but still struggling vs the F6F. The whole purpose of that big blob of F6F's is to engage as many IJN fighters as possible, and thus sending squads in to fight them only plays by their flute.

We have the radar which they have not. Instead of going the samurai way, I would suggest the ninja way. We can simply have one squad harassing them en-route like last frame (was a good plan which forced several droptanks off) and then play cat n mouse just to keep their big wing in place at the atoll. Meanwhile two squads go some 20-30 miles to the north and south around the F6F's and swarm their draggers way east, which will probably be strikers with a few escorts. If the big killer ball starts moving E to the fight, disengage and RTB in a wide circle with hopefully several TBD/escort kills.

Cheers!
/Robert
4th FG


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 Post subject: Re: Frame 3 Observations
PostPosted: Wed Mar 04, 2015 5:50 pm 
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Joined: Sat Nov 09, 2013 2:27 am
Posts: 394
--

Truth is. They (them they people) believed they were herding us to 20 as they had the task of keeping us away from 23 and 25.

The "bombers" unlike frames 1 and 2 came in at 20k (devastators and dauntlessness at 20k level bombing just like WW2...:) ) which is fine.
An attack on 21 was scrubbed at the last part as they perceived a non dominance of the airspace.

"WE" must understand that once we truly engage that is it, we will kill them all or they will leave, there is no positive third outcome. So, we need to pick the spot and/or wait for an extended amount of time to trap them low gas and low ammo, WHICH REQUIRES that some of us engage them to use up gas and ammo, WHICH causes the aforementioned..... once engaged aint no leavin'..... for us. THEREFORE, we either engage inside our ack ring to increase survivability and damage landing rates, OR we hold back a goodly amount to hover over the egress route at the end of the melee and pick on them till they cry.

This was suggested last frame and is unknown if it was done, but, it is very difficult as it needs ultra discipline and boredom is high until you are able to take advantage of the egress. Combine that with the need for ultra precision GCI or the zeke will not be able to catch the enemy even if in correct area etc etc and you have some difficulty. A GCI would need to understand that the enemy is say at the 6 5 55 area and the zeros are at 7 5 X then they must go about 165ยบ immediately, then to have enough speed to intercept and still keep dar confused (for the allies), all the while being aware that if they dive to soon or too much that the enemy may be 20k or 5k and they loose the initiative. AND, if damaged the probability of getting back is very low.

The main thrust is that when WE engage that is that, it is a one time thing unless the enemy leaves. Any one pilot who drops even a bit causes the engagement and thus good men go to help and boom you are trapped in space. That is how it is, so pre-picking the spot is probably necessary, but they can avoid the spot as they did the last frame.

Thoughts

Juice


352nd Fighter Group C.O. (V) - "The Blue Nosed Bastards of Bodney"
487th Fighter Squadron (V)-HO
486th Fighter Squadron (V)-PZ
328th Fighter Squadron (V)-PE
We have the whips - KILL THEM ALL


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 Post subject: Re: Frame 3 Observations
PostPosted: Wed Mar 04, 2015 11:51 pm 
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Joined: Sat Nov 09, 2013 12:29 am
Posts: 230
Robert wrote:
<S> Wolf, thanks for taking the big chair and it was nice to see the 352nd racking up some kills in the buffer.

From what I could observe in frame 3, they play the big wing (hindsight is the best teacher :-) ). Just sitting at a location (like F20) and daring us to come attack them. My 4 cents for frame 4 is we should avoid a full engagement with their meat grinder, as the zero is potent, but still struggling vs the F6F. The whole purpose of that big blob of F6F's is to engage as many IJN fighters as possible, and thus sending squads in to fight them only plays by their flute.

We have the radar which they have not. Instead of going the samurai way, I would suggest the ninja way. We can simply have one squad harassing them en-route like last frame (was a good plan which forced several droptanks off) and then play cat n mouse just to keep their big wing in place at the atoll. Meanwhile two squads go some 20-30 miles to the north and south around the F6F's and swarm their draggers way east, which will probably be strikers with a few escorts. If the big killer ball starts moving E to the fight, disengage and RTB in a wide circle with hopefully several TBD/escort kills.

Cheers!
/Robert
4th FG


This is exactly what the 23rd did last frame. After meeting a superior numbered foe slightly above us, we harrased them enough to make them drop tanks and then drew them south away from the atoll. After they gave up, we circled around to try to pick up the strike. We did find it but unfortunately, we didn't have the numbers to really make it stick. Even thou none of us made it home, I bet we gave the sweep fighters some heartburn :mrgreen:


Sasquatch"
=sqtc=
23rd Fighter Group
CO


"You know you loaded too much fuel only when you see fire" :P


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