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Frame 2 CO Planning Thread
http://squadselectseries.com/s3forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=1170		 Page 1 of 3
Author:  Sakai [ Mon Feb 09, 2015 2:24 pm ]
Post subject:  Frame 2 CO Planning Thread
Gents,

I was unable to make frame 1. I would appreciate any and all thoughts on what worked and what we could do better for Frame 2.

Dobs wrote this about Fr. 1


=dobs= wrote:
Think we need a little more detail in the next plan. Take off and find the enemy provides insufficient detail for those in the frying pan.

"Upon contact, and running west for your life, expect no help from scrambling aircraft as they all will be heading West as well."

475th pretty much all died within 10 miles of F20...low.


So here is what we discovered, F6F's outclimb Zeke 5s...handily.

They were 5k above us at initial contact, assuming they rolled when JABO called roll they easily climbed us.

Single con bee lined for us, ID'd us and then the higher cons came in....which asks the question how far is CV Dar?

F6F will turn with you for 90 degrees of turn...maybe 180.

If you match what GCI is calling, please ID yourself to increase GCI SA. Radar Contacts are radar contacts....

Suggest the 12 ship tasked for next First roll, don't go East..but Climb N/S/W and be prepared to help scrambling fighters....

Without Donkey Dar, we would not have intercepted inbound "bombers"....something to think about.

A6M bird cage 6 view will hide a con at 6:)

Dobs
Author:  drdart [ Mon Feb 09, 2015 2:38 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Frame 2 CO Planning Thread
It appears that from frame one, even though we had 12 fighters out patrolling the skies. We seen the enemy on radar and got the SCRAMBLE orders long before out initial 12 were able to spot them.

I suggest maybe having the early planes just get to altitude above the shipping and protect the rest as we climb out after the scramble order.
Author:  Sakai [ Mon Feb 09, 2015 2:54 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Frame 2 CO Planning Thread
Thanks, Doc.


This from Tracer:

tracer wrote:
From a scramble fighter point of view:

The initial scouting group on dar wasn't fanned out scouting, although by chance moving straight down the 6 grid east they actually went straight into the enemy's attack.
As I pointed out yesterday, the F6F's will not show themselves on dar until above 30,000 ft, and in numbers that will hopelessly outnumber our advance scouts. Running a
squad of advanced scouts as a group into the oncoming high alt enemy horde far away from the islands simply wastes one of our best fighter groups

------>There is no point, moving forward in this series, in sending out advanced scouts vs an enemy with greater numbers, greater alt and a stronger a/c. <-----

We have dar that sees 5 grids east (more than enough), and we are defending the islands. Keep our initial 12 a/c within the atoll ring at all times, and keep them climbing. Rely on island
dar only for the initial intercept vectors, it works fine. There is no chance, zero, that scrambled fighters can gain enough altitude to help with the initial enemy fighter sweep.
At all times we found them much higher than we could get. Our initial 12 scouts must only play cat and mouse with the high enemy sweep, do not take them on. Use
up their gas and stay safe and wait for the lower attacks to eventually come, where we can dominate over our bases and ack.

Play total defensive going forward, do not engage fighters far from the atoll with huge altitude advantages, and make them fight lower at our islands where we can beat them.
My 2 cents on frame 1 from where I sat.
<S>
tracer
Author:  zinhwk [ Mon Feb 09, 2015 3:39 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Frame 2 CO Planning Thread
77 tried to help our comrades in need, but were about 10 seconds too late. We though we had more help around us when we engaged but it evaporated quickly and soon it was the 352nd vs 6 of us. That being said I'm not sure results would have differed much if as a group we poured it on instead of high tailing it out of there. Reference jlord's first 2 videos. It's almost infuriating to hear so many of them say "he hammered the hell out of me" and nothing come of it. Not being able to efficiently kill the enemy nullifies any sort of performance advantage we work towards.

What was the altitude of the SBDs? Probably best to stay low, force the fighters to come to us and take as many bombers as possible.
Author:  zikker [ Mon Feb 09, 2015 7:00 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Frame 2 CO Planning Thread
From the series rules... "the IJN may only launch 12 a/c to patrol the Truk area at T+0."

Scouts are optional the way I read it. (Jabo, please correct me if I'm wrong.) IMO, radar gives more than sufficient time to mount a reasonable defense IF...


-We give up the idea of fighting at 9000 m, and use their aggressiveness against them. This is a far different animal than ETO, so our thinking must change. The rare air environment caters to the F6F-5's strengths, not ours, and is probably what the Allies expect us to do by habit. Why give it to them? I really don't see a need to go above 1500 - 2500 m, the bombers are NOE. Staying low forces the Allied astronauts to make a decision. Remain a non-threat in the nose-bleed safe zone, or commit to a low E fight against an angry axis turn-fighting swarm and possible ack?

-Keep the entire axis force in visual range of each other at all times. We simply don't have the cruise speed to cover significant distances and effectively back each other up. Think sardine ball that can shoot back. Don't be bothered by bandits on oxygen and dare them to dive into us. We have the agility at lower altitudes to dodge any and all high speed attacks, at will. If they're gullible or frustrated enough to enter a low E turn fight with a ball of A6M's working together, then we have the advantage. Doubly so with numbers.

-As tracer suggested, keep it over our turf. There's nowhere to go over open water, and no chance of outrunning a F6F-5 over a long distance at any altitude. Don't put ourselves in a position where we might have to go far. We also know exactly where the bombers will be going. Intercept is much easier if we're already over the target. If they do close a large field, it takes only six SBD/TBD kills to equalize the score. They cap our field? We wait for them to run out of fuel, then feast on the remaining bombers. Fuel divisor is set to 0.75.


Be one with the armed sardine...

Image
Author:  dawger [ Mon Feb 09, 2015 7:26 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Frame 2 CO Planning Thread
Send 12 up to get high and west of Truk.

Scramblers stay below 5,000 feet where we nullify the enemy ability to dive away and force the enemy into a turn fight.

Once they come low the 12 can come in from the top.

We showed our hand putting the 12 scouts on enemy radar very early.

They will be a lot more nervous if they know we have 12 airborne but off radar
Author:  Beaver [ Mon Feb 09, 2015 9:51 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Frame 2 CO Planning Thread
From what I saw as the Frame developed, we should not have strayed outside of the Ring, they have ack which can make it difficult for their fighters if they get too low.

I might point out that the TDB has NORDEN bomb sights, so they could bomb from on high. That would leave them above our effective intercept heigth. The idea of putting the first gropu just West of the ring and high could be used to our advantage of the TDB's come high and the rest of us are at 10K' or so, the fighters would come in to feast, leaving the TDB's unescorted up high.

Being used to coloured dots, the GCI is pretty useless once the groups merge. All I could see was a swirling mass of white dots.
Author:  ratenp [ Tue Feb 10, 2015 12:52 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Frame 2 CO Planning Thread
You weren't alone in your confusion with the white dots Beaver. I noticed a FNG rolling early because he saw white dots on the dar and automatically assumed his squad was up. An understandable mistake when one is not aware of neutral dots being used on dar. Our own GGI was constantly asking for posreps later in the frame. From my limited perspective of our success during the frame, it appeared most if not all of the Axis victories were at relative low alts. I'm saying from around 4km and down.

The Zeke is an excellent low altitude fighter if one uses patience. And that blind spot in the F6F's rear canopy can be used to great advantage. Just my personal experience with the Zeke, but usually you're just wasting ammo if you fire from outside of 2.5 range and that's pushing it. If one can, it's best to wait until D2 or closer before opening fire.

And Dobs, I agree 100% on the bird cage canopy. Pretend you're a canary; it tends to help. :)

rat...
Author:  tracer [ Tue Feb 10, 2015 1:55 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Frame 2 CO Planning Thread
Lots of good thoughts posted. A few random thoughts:

Another point is it is very helpful for deceased pilots to pull up a lawn chair on the outer atoll especially at
24, 25 and 31 and simply monitor when the ack is/is not firing. You can tell if it is shooting low or high, and goes
a long way helping GCI who is looking at a mess of white dots to determine if bad guys are nearby. TK found more than
one sneaky jabo low in the mess of white dots by not logging once dead and monitoring ack.

I put zeke canon convergence at 275, and try only shoot from d2 as Rat points out. Just remember when you drop your
droptank to make sure your cannon is reactivated. Don't ask me how I know this! :oops:

http://youtu.be/kzAmoUQOoF8

In a dive, always chop zeke throttle to zero. It allows maneuvering, keeps the wings on, and gives you that
unexpected jump forward at the bottom of the dive when you slam the throttle forward. Also keep the barrel roll
in mind in a dive with an angry F6F with you. Keep vis on him as you wide barrel roll and often you get a sweet reversal
with him now in your gunsights.

Keep the initial high scouts inside the atoll, force the F6F's to come down if they wish to fight us on our terms down low,
and be patient. The hyper aggressive enemy will eventually have to come down if all they have is empty sky at 35,000 ft
where they dominate. Make them either play our game down low, or bore empty holes at 35,000ft watching their strikers
die in the buffer.
Hang in there IJN!
<S>
Author:  zinhwk [ Tue Feb 10, 2015 3:31 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Frame 2 CO Planning Thread
Is sitting on runway considered "launched"? He have our 12 man limit for airborne ops but it might be worth screwing with their heads if we all went otr but didn't roll.
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