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FRAME III AAR
http://squadselectseries.com/s3forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=1107		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  timos [ Mon Jan 12, 2015 2:13 pm ]
Post subject:  FRAME III AAR
All groups performed and communicated very well. I think we got this strip and shoot thing down!
Sorry if there was some confusion about my name in game forgot to mention that.

The 475th hit the forward sweep of the 4th and 352nd fighter group early over the channel causing several escorts to turn back and get scattered. They again hit the escorts and got a bunch to chase em low. The Haze and Eagles stripped the remaining escorts from over top the buff formation just before the shooters got there. The buffs turned north and made a slight adjustment only miles from the shooters almost as if they knew how close the shooters were. Still our shooters made good looking passes on the buffs and the shooters also managed to shake up a trailing buff group. Excellent work gents!

We could not prevent the buffs from reaching Berlin but we did make them pay dearly. We shot down half of the escorts and tallied many AI buffs as well.

I would like to know some more about the shooters experiences with the new buff damage model. Supposedly it is harder now to get PK, easier to get fuel and oil leaks but more difficult to cause engine fires. What were the shooters experiences? The buff tuff might have made it more difficult to get a good assessment though.

I wanted to get used to the Bullseye thing but ya know, when under pressure the old grid force of habit completely kicked in. It didnt help that I lost my dds file when I updated.

Was a pleasure to serve as your CO ,

timos
Author:  =dobs= [ Mon Jan 12, 2015 2:37 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: FRAME III AAR
I personally thought the dstar thing was fitting:) Kept seeing it and thinking "Darkstar, Picture Bullseye 270 180" :)

Nice job!

Dobs

Video's posted in the General Section.
Author:  dawger [ Mon Jan 12, 2015 3:58 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: FRAME III AAR
475FG pushed hard West early in the frame to hit any feint coming across the channel.

It turned out it was the Main Body. We hit two fighter groups flying ahead of the bombers. 4FG was one of them for sure. I think the 352nd was embedded in the bombers from the video evidence posted.

We engaged, killed two and stripped them. I called for egress northest once we reached our hard deck of 15 K

We lost two in this engagement. We rallied and pushed east, hitting the escorts again just as the bomber stream passed northeast of Amsterdam. We got the high escort turning and descending, stripping them out low and west of the stream.

Intel gleaned from the video is very helpful. 352nd was flying embedded in the bombers, giving them no energy to pursue co alt or higher bandits. Once the two groups forward were stripped the bombers were defenseless (other than deflector shields to maximum).

The bombers were, as usual, flying too high and too fast for effective escort. From the video the Mustang was at 85% throttle, unable to weave. The bombers are putting the escorts in an impossible situation.

However, poor bomber tactics and techniques are no obstacle. There is always BUFFTUFF to save the DAY!

I feel sorry for the Allied fighter groups.

Our tactics and execution are excellent as a whole. The Axis side is well coordinated with folks sticking to the plan.

As long as the BUFFTUFF is above 1, I don't plan on leading the 475FG against them.

We will aggressively pursue the escorts and AI formations but not human bombers. It is a shame they don't have to answer for bad tactics.
Author:  zinhwk [ Mon Jan 12, 2015 8:05 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: FRAME III AAR
AI were smoking and fuelling but PKs were non existent, then again not every pass was right in the noggin. Dolch and Zikker put rounds in cockpits a couple times but nothing. Reference my video but took at least 25% of 20mm+some 7.9 to get engine 2 burning on a B-17. I didn't record the pummeling of Hawk late in the frame but Prime and I shot damn near everything off him and he still flew on, barely. In some ways realistic, but it was an exhaustive effort on a lone B-24.

Jabo, with the new DMs could we try frame IV at BT 1.0? if it is a slaughterhaus then consider an increase. We should at least give the actually DMs we were suppose to have a chance.
Author:  briar [ Tue Jan 13, 2015 12:52 am ]
Post subject:  Re: FRAME III AAR
dawger wrote:

As long as the BUFFTUFF is above 1, I don't plan on leading the 475FG against them.

We will aggressively pursue the escorts and AI formations but not human bombers. It is a shame they don't have to answer for bad tactics.


So do you suggest that we all just give the live bombers a free pass? Does that apply to the escorts assigned to the live bombers? Just want us all on the same page.

<S>
Author:  timos [ Tue Jan 13, 2015 2:36 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: FRAME III AAR
dawger wrote:
Our tactics and execution are excellent as a whole. The Axis side is well coordinated with folks sticking to the plan.

As long as the BUFFTUFF is above 1, I don't plan on leading the 475FG against them.

We will aggressively pursue the escorts and AI formations but not human bombers. It is a shame they don't have to answer for bad tactics.


Dawger, with all due respect I am having trouble understanding your logic here. You comment on Axis side being well coordinated and sticking to the plan and then say you wont be sticking to the plan If you have to be shooters.

What makes flying the axis side preferable to me is that all the squads are team players and do the job assigned without complaining. I think we would all like to pick apart the escorts every frame but sometimes you are assigned to be the shooters, someone has to do it.

respectfully submitted,
timos
Author:  dawger [ Tue Jan 13, 2015 4:15 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: FRAME III AAR
briar wrote:
dawger wrote:

As long as the BUFFTUFF is above 1, I don't plan on leading the 475FG against them.

We will aggressively pursue the escorts and AI formations but not human bombers. It is a shame they don't have to answer for bad tactics.


So do you suggest that we all just give the live bombers a free pass? Does that apply to the escorts assigned to the live bombers? Just want us all on the same page.

<S>


I am suggesting that changing the bomber settings in the middle of an S3 is punishing the Axis for doing a good job.

If we beat the dogshit out of the human bombers it is never the excellent tactics and execution of the Axis, the poor formation and excessive speed of the bombers or the absence of effective escort. It is ALWAYS attributed to the Damage Model.

Attacking the human bombers makes no sense.

If we do it right, bufftuff is cranked up. If we do it right the "bomber pilots" threaten to quit. They seem happiest when they can fly to Berlin and back unmolested. I am all for letting them do that.

I am all for attacking the escorts and AI bombers no matter where they are but I would suggest issuing no orders to any Axis group to attack human bombers IF BUFFTUFF is above 1.0. That doesn't prevent any group assigned a "shooter" role from attacking human bombers. Just leave it to the discretion of the individual group CO's.

There is nothing worse than the frustration of emptying a 190 of ammunition at D2 on a B17 and watching it fly on.
Author:  =dobs= [ Tue Jan 13, 2015 4:17 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: FRAME III AAR
Think what dawger was saying is " if you can't kill a bomber because they made it so you can't kill a bomber" why try killing bombers.
Author:  dawger [ Tue Jan 13, 2015 4:21 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: FRAME III AAR
timos wrote:
dawger wrote:
Our tactics and execution are excellent as a whole. The Axis side is well coordinated with folks sticking to the plan.

As long as the BUFFTUFF is above 1, I don't plan on leading the 475FG against them.

We will aggressively pursue the escorts and AI formations but not human bombers. It is a shame they don't have to answer for bad tactics.


Dawger, with all due respect I am having trouble understanding your logic here. You comment on Axis side being well coordinated and sticking to the plan and then say you wont be sticking to the plan If you have to be shooters.

What makes flying the axis side preferable to me is that all the squads are team players and do the job assigned without complaining. I think we would all like to pick apart the escorts every frame but sometimes you are assigned to be the shooters, someone has to do it.

respectfully submitted,
timos


If the Frame CO specifically orders HUMAN bombers to be attacked then I will have a decision to make. If the orders leave it to the discretion of the individual group CO then I have no problem. AI bombers count for points, aren't protected by deflectors shields and don't whine when they die.

And I won't just ignore orders. I will tell you EXACTLY what I plan to do before the frame. Frame 3 orders left it to the discretion of the groups and all worked well. 475FG were strippers but had we been assigned shooter duty we would have done what the orders stated.

Quote:
Make your first pass on the lead bomb group and then focus all additional passes on the trailing AI bombers.
Author:  dawger [ Tue Jan 13, 2015 4:22 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: FRAME III AAR
=dobs= wrote:
Think what dawger was saying is " if you can't kill a human bomber because they made it so you can't kill a human bomber" why try killing human bombers?


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