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CV group ACK - frame 4 TS
http://squadselectseries.com/s3forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=444		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  Robert [ Tue Mar 18, 2014 12:37 pm ]
Post subject:  CV group ACK - frame 4 TS
I write this as constructive critisism to help improve the S3s.

The reason is because the ship ack from the allied CV group in frame 4 was close to useless. The ack is not to decimate anyone who gets close, but it should at least be a real threat to enemy squads deciding to fight right in the thick of it, and I hope it will be tuned up a little bit in the future.

This was what I saw in frame 4, trying to protect the CV group:

1) The whole IJN fighter armada was crusing in circles right on top of the CV formation for 5-10 minutes. They did this at 5k-15k altitude without taking a single loss from what I could see. We are talking 5-10 minutes right on top of ack with no losses, while in europe series the buffs planned their routes to avoid even a quick pass directly over flak positions at 25k.

2) Once the fight started, 5+ full steps of enemy fighters swarmed the 4th, literally turning circles for several minutes among USN-destroyers at 500ft alt, without losing almost a single plane to ack. There was no short range flak fired, just long range ack missing everything. The IJN should have won the fight as they did, but not without taking many losses. I personally was turning for quite a while with 5 Zeros almost at collision range of a destroyer, without it even oiling the cons.

Luckily for the 4th FG at the CVs the Betties came in a few seconds before the IJN fighters attacked, as the Zeros were afraid of ack. This allowed us to down a few of them before getting swarmed. Given the ack conditions that unfolded, the IJN fighters could have just dispatched us way before.

Otherwise thanks -Jabo- and CO for the job you do with the S3s, I really love and enjoy flying them :)
/Robert
4th FG
CO 336th FG
Author:  Dumspiro [ Tue Mar 18, 2014 1:00 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: CV group ACK - frame 4 TS
FWIW I've lobbied for deadlier high alt ack for both land and sea. I think the problem there is it might be settings; all ack is more accurate or none.
The low stuff I don't know, it might be there were too many targets. I know in the Euro series, there is always frustration about friendly fields not firing ack on low level enemy fighters. Its all most likely a combination of weird WB guns and settings balance.
For me a formation of 20 level bombers should lose at least one to high ack. Low level seems pretty deadlier on strikers, but I think should lose half if there is no interceptors. Circling fighters I don't know. But you would think at least a couple should get hit if low enough.
I favor higher settings that promote approach enemy fields at your peril attitudes, but I'd hate for it to be too tough for strikers. At the same time, it should be deadly to friendly planes as well. Do WB 88s throw shrapnel?
<S>
Author:  kenl [ Tue Mar 18, 2014 5:31 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: CV group ACK - frame 4 TS
I know we were orbiting the CV's at much higher altitudes than 15K and the ack was below us. The Allied fighters were staying in the ack and as the IJN forces dove into the fight, they were getting hit by the ack. From what I could see, the ack cloud was thick and deadly; we were being very cautious dropping down for attacks.
Author:  gflyer [ Tue Mar 18, 2014 7:56 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: CV group ACK - frame 4 TS
To be fair, ack is ack. Friends would be hit just as much as enemy in a swirling fight in the ships. No way to target accurately in that. I would think ack would stop altogether in that situation.
Author:  briar [ Wed Mar 19, 2014 12:17 am ]
Post subject:  Re: CV group ACK - frame 4 TS
gflyer wrote:
To be fair, ack is ack. Friends would be hit just as much as enemy in a swirling fight in the ships. No way to target accurately in that. I would think ack would stop altogether in that situation.


It wouldn't be stopped in RL, that was a risk to all friendlies who came into ack range. There were many friendly fire casualties in WW2 for that reason. Also, I have been shot up by friendly ack in past S3s. Some of it hits behind the enemy plane and the shrapnel doesn't care. At least that is what I have observed.

<S>
Author:  Gums [ Wed Mar 19, 2014 4:00 am ]
Post subject:  Re: CV group ACK - frame 4 TS
Salute!

I for one do not want more accurate ack ( unless it's ours, heh heh).

As of now, the WB ack is much more accurate and unrealistic than the real world I flew in about 40 years ago. It included radar-directed 85mm and some bigger guns that had a long reload time.

The LW 88 rounds did not have VT fuzes, and they either had to hit you or explode mabe 15 or 20 meters from you to do anything. The U.S. Navy had VT fuzes on their later guns and those were very effective, as you can imagine.

I know that seeing the airbursts in WB makes things exciting, but all except the LW 88's used a fixed time-of-flight to self-destruct and not come back down on friendlies. The real ones I saw 40 years ago were like that, and you could tell what caliber the gun was by the altitude of the airbursts. The only ones that exploded right near your altitude were the 85's ( Fire Can radar controlled). So we saw a layer of smoke fairly low from the 20's, then another about 15K from the 37's, another around 20K from the 57's, and the 85's seemed to sefl-destruct about 25 to 30K.

Lastly, even with modern computers, if you turn just a few degrees or so during the time of flight, then it's a miss if you are flying at 300 feet per second or so and with maybe 3 or 4 seconds time of flight for the ack round. No computer yet can predict what you are gonna do after the gun fires, even with a "perfect" aimpoint.

That's my story, and I'm stickin' to it.

Gums remembers....
Author:  Beaver [ Sat Mar 22, 2014 5:28 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: CV group ACK - frame 4 TS
Well said Gums, ack is deadly enough. When I flew back from the attack on the CV I did with damaged gear and damaged flaps, made for an exciting landing.
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