S3 Series
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S3 scoring
http://squadselectseries.com/s3forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=3187		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  fencer7 [ Mon Sep 30, 2019 6:35 pm ]
Post subject:  S3 scoring
Frame 2 of this BoB series showed me that a new scoring category is needed for for the S6.
I propose:
"Death or Loss by Collision"
The victim of the collision (ram) should get 1 point added to their score.
The instigator should be awarded -2 points (subtracted from their score)
and they should be instantly ejected from their airplane. It should be
counted as an air frame loss. It might stop the dreaded HO/ram attacks.

Or, the collision model could be removed from the game and the unfair
and inconsistent results would be avoided.

Fencer
Author:  swanee [ Mon Sep 30, 2019 11:39 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: S3 scoring
It's tough to decipher many times WHO the rammer and rammie are in most cases. I've flown missions where I haven't changed my heading for 10 minutes and an ac comes from my long 10 o'clock or so and turns toward me in a direct path head on. We collide and he claims I am the one who rammed him. There is no real way to prove who instigated it. It is a 50/50 situation most times.

My main problem with collisions, is the collision bubble with the bombers. With this S3, the allies really only have .303s to bring down bombers. In order to do this effectively you have to be within D1-D3. But that almost always results in a collision, when it looks like you have plenty of room on your FE. So if an allied fighter runs into a bomber would that be considered ramming?
Author:  fencer7 [ Tue Oct 01, 2019 5:39 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: S3 scoring
I agree with the problem of collisions with the AI bombers.
My best solution to the collision problem is to remove the
collision model from the game. It's no long a useful part of
the game. It may have had a good effect in the early years
but IMHO time has past it by. Perhaps the S3community
should put it up to a vote to keep it or get rid of it.

Fencer
Author:  nookyb [ Tue Oct 01, 2019 10:44 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: S3 scoring
The only way to stop the HO's is to go back to One Life. There were no HO's back then....
Author:  Muzz [ Tue Oct 01, 2019 11:51 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: S3 scoring
nooky,
I don't entirely agree. Anti-buff HO attacks are pretty much standard, especially with LW fighters against USAAC bombers streams. Six attacks against B-17 are B-24s are usually suicidal, while HO attacks usually yield a kill (and hopefully without a collision result which is not normally wanted by the attacking fighter). HO attacks on buffs are much more difficult to set up in a BoB scenario as buff detection range and determination of their track to target are not clear for a long time.
HO attacks with .303s are really tough to pull off given the lack of lethality at anything but point blank ranges. Just not enough time to get enough rounds on target unless you get a luck PK (really the point of a HO on the glazed nose of a LW bomber). When early war RAF fighters end up in beam or 6 attacks against buffs (especially really tight formations) it is really hard to get in close (D1-2) to hit effectively without either having a high closing speed (to minimize exposure to otto, but risking collision), or using a low speed closure (to avoid the collision bubble, but where otto rips you to shreds before you get close enough).
Fighter vs fighter ramming - I can't see this as anything the player base would do intentionally, with the possible exception of a player outnumbered, on fire and/or out of ammo, no chance to escape and over enemy territory where a bail equals a death. Any other time a ram is likely purely accidental.
Author:  nookyb [ Wed Oct 02, 2019 1:31 am ]
Post subject:  Re: S3 scoring
Actually, yes I agree. I was making an off the cuff comment about HO's but Ho attackers on buffs are historic and effective. I wouldn't recommend removing the collision bubble...

maybe fighters need to adjust their attacks to a slashing attack from high 3 and 9 o'clock concentrating firepower on the cockpit of the bomber...zoom past and then climb for another pass from the opposite side.

I do empathize with trying to shoot down a bomber with .303's.
Author:  OhShix [ Wed Oct 02, 2019 2:59 am ]
Post subject:  Re: S3 scoring
This series I have had collisions with bomber while still D2 away. Since 303s are just getting effective at D3 I feel we have the a sticky wicket here. I have a very fast ISP, Comcast. Does connection speed have an impact on this issue? Suggestions?
Author:  split [ Wed Oct 02, 2019 3:15 am ]
Post subject:  Re: S3 scoring
nookyb wrote:
Actually, yes I agree. I was making an off the cuff comment about HO's but Ho attackers on buffs are historic and effective. I wouldn't recommend removing the collision bubble...

maybe fighters need to adjust their attacks to a slashing attack from high 3 and 9 o'clock concentrating firepower on the cockpit of the bomber...zoom past and then climb for another pass from the opposite side.

I do empathize with trying to shoot down a bomber with .303's.


HO's are still dicy with the 303's limited range of hitting power and the increased closure rate.
Agree on not removing the collision bubble.

My last collision was just that, a slash from high 3-4 o'clock and I thought I was being careful about a collision. All I saw was an ai wing appear as it apparently changed course. There usually is no climb for another pass without extending out first, but that is because of the good escorts.

There's gotta be a way to crack this nut, but it is elusive to me at this time ;)
Author:  split [ Wed Oct 02, 2019 3:23 am ]
Post subject:  Re: S3 scoring
nookyb wrote:
The only way to stop the HO's is to go back to One Life. There were no HO's back then....


I'll agree, if they were both fighters.
I've flown LW in a number of 'kill the allied buffs' series during the times of One Life to Live. We made many successful HO attacks on buffs.
Author:  fencer7 [ Wed Oct 02, 2019 8:53 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: S3 scoring
Missing the point: The collision model is arbitrary, uncontrolled and unfairly applied.
There is no rhyme or reason in it's application. Due to lag, warp and a host of other
reason no one can anticipate its effect or results. Not just the AIs but players also
are effected by lag, warp, etc. Not just in this S3 but in all S3s, every S3. And the
Main Arena is also effected. It takes away from the fun of the game. I don't think
that any player wakes up in morning and says "I think I'll play WBs today so I can
have an arbitrary collision that's not my fault so I can lose a life and an air frame".
If the game isn't fun people won't play. Look at the numbers we have in the S3s now,
compared to 5 years ago. No matter what the rules are, HOs, ramming and random
collisions will happen. If the collision model is randomly applied as it is now players
will stop playing. If WBs wants to keep going and start growing, the old ideas/rules
need to be looked at, some need to be discarded, some modified and some new rules
put in place. IMHO the collision model is out dated and only hurts game play, not
enhances it. Try a few frames without it and see what the response is.

Just my 2 cents worth

Fencer
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