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| The FW190F8 Vs JU88. A question for the Luftwaffe guys... http://squadselectseries.com/s3forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=313 |
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| Author: | Madcat [ Thu Feb 13, 2014 12:41 am ] |
| Post subject: | The FW190F8 Vs JU88. A question for the Luftwaffe guys... |
Curiosity kills the cat…. A question for the Luftwaffe guys. Not trying to start a flame war or anything, but I kept wondering when you guys were going to break out the new FW-190F8. I had hoped that it would be utilized this series as, at least in my opinion, it has a lot to offer in the ground attack role. A maximum bomb load of 2X250kg and 1X 500kg bombs combined with speed at sea level. Granted the Ju-88 carries more weight but when it comes down to survivability and speed on the deck the 190F8 looks like the better option. When a JU88 is caught by enemy fighters it's chances of survival are very small. A 190F8 can at least make a run for it and if it has to, it might have a decent chance of defending itself. It gets to target much faster, so it's not in the combat zone for as long as the JU88. It will get more trips in and can pull enemy planes away from other freindlies. I use it now as my choice of ground attack plane in the main arena. For those of you who prefer German bombers/strike aircraft, have you spent any time in the 190F8? |
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| Author: | Muzz [ Thu Feb 13, 2014 10:04 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: The FW190F8 Vs JU88. A question for the Luftwaffe guys.. |
From my perspective, in the jabo role as compated to the Dora, the higher weight of bombs in the F8 was just not worth the near guarantee of getting run down by the faster Allied aircraft. NOE against Ponies the Dora is the only way to go unless you are guaranteed superior numbers. Now, if forced to choose between the f8 or the Ju88 I'd probably take the F8, but I normally flight lites. |
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| Author: | Madcat [ Thu Feb 13, 2014 10:58 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: The FW190F8 Vs JU88. A question for the Luftwaffe guys.. |
Muzz wrote: From my perspective, in the jabo role as compated to the Dora, the higher weight of bombs in the F8 was just not worth the near guarantee of getting run down by the faster Allied aircraft. NOE against Ponies the Dora is the only way to go unless you are guaranteed superior numbers. Now, if forced to choose between the f8 or the Ju88 I'd probably take the F8, but I normally flight lites. Have you tried the F8? It seems to outrun everything on the deck. Even a Dora. |
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| Author: | Beaver [ Fri Feb 14, 2014 1:54 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: The FW190F8 Vs JU88. A question for the Luftwaffe guys.. |
Madcat wrote: Muzz wrote: From my perspective, in the jabo role as compated to the Dora, the higher weight of bombs in the F8 was just not worth the near guarantee of getting run down by the faster Allied aircraft. NOE against Ponies the Dora is the only way to go unless you are guaranteed superior numbers. Now, if forced to choose between the f8 or the Ju88 I'd probably take the F8, but I normally flight lites. Have you tried the F8? It seems to outrun everything on the deck. Even a Dora. I did a test run of all aircraft (single engine) for the last series. In order of fastest to slowest FW190-D - 320 mph with 3 250 kg bombs, 356 mph unloaded 109K4 (single 20mm gun) - 305 with 1 250kg bomb, 346 unladed P51-D 336 mph P47- D 328 mph 109K4 with Gondolas (i.e. 3 x 20MM), can't carry ord, 322 mph P38-L 318 mph FW190F 2 x 250, 1 x 500 kg - 280 mph, unloaded, 300 mph (however the 190F has a long range so it would be faster as I used 50% fuel load for all aircraft) These are straight and level speeds at 1,500' |
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| Author: | thor [ Fri Feb 14, 2014 12:31 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: The FW190F8 Vs JU88. A question for the Luftwaffe guys.. |
Madcat wrote: Muzz wrote: From my perspective, in the jabo role as compated to the Dora, the higher weight of bombs in the F8 was just not worth the near guarantee of getting run down by the faster Allied aircraft. NOE against Ponies the Dora is the only way to go unless you are guaranteed superior numbers. Now, if forced to choose between the f8 or the Ju88 I'd probably take the F8, but I normally flight lites. Have you tried the F8? It seems to outrun everything on the deck. Even a Dora. well then fly it for a month ... better yet, how about your whole squad fly it for a year EXCLUSIVELY ... then give us a report. |
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| Author: | Jman [ Fri Feb 14, 2014 6:33 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: The FW190F8 Vs JU88. A question for the Luftwaffe guys.. |
Beaver wrote: I did a test run of all aircraft (single engine) for the last series. In order of fastest to slowest FW190F 2 x 250, 1 x 500 kg - 280 mph, unloaded, 300 mph (however the 190F has a long range so it would be faster as I used 50% fuel load for all aircraft) These are straight and level speeds at 1,500' I just ran that test and I'm showing: ~311 (t) with 2x250 and 1x500 at full throttle 50% fuel.... BST 1 (30min) is ~341mph (t) BST 2 (10 min) is ~359mph (t) Dropped the three bombs and on BST 2 it went to.. ~373mph (t) Seems pretty fast to me.... |
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| Author: | swanee [ Fri Feb 14, 2014 9:30 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: The FW190F8 Vs JU88. A question for the Luftwaffe guys.. |
Hey Madcat- The Knights have graciously invited me to join them in the S3s and lately have had me as their fighter lead. They are a hybrid squad of bomber and fighter pilots. From my perspective flying for the Knights: Speaking for the fighters, the first 2 frames we all (fighter and bomber pilots) were in the 262s for bombing, because that what we were assigned and that was all we were allowed to use them for. Some of the bomber guys didn't particularly enjoy flying them. The last three frames the fighter guys were in escort mode, and the 190 is not conducive for tight, low level support. The bomber guys in the Knights are just that, bomber guys. They don't feel comfortable in fighters for bombing missions, and love flying the multi-engine bombers. There was a high loss of ju88s on some missions mainly due to ack, since these were low level sorties. Knights seem to always be outnumbered when engaging the enemy, keeping their fighters very busy (only 4 of us on any one mission), but the bomber pilots in this squad are rock solid and always destroyed their targets when using the bombers. <S> Swanee |
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| Author: | Madcat [ Sat Feb 15, 2014 12:19 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: The FW190F8 Vs JU88. A question for the Luftwaffe guys.. |
Beav, going from memory, I've done around 380 in the 190F8. I have chased down Typhoons, P51s, P38s, Ki84s etc. Yes it is slower loaded up with bombs going to target but I still think that Jman's numbers are nearer the mark. When I get some free time I'll run some tests myself. Swan, I'm not trying to start a flame war, I'm sure you realize that, I don't want to risk coming across that way. I understand the Knights like their bomber planes and especially the JU88. Who wouldn't? It's a great plane. I also understand "comfort zone" thinking. I'm asking if the FW-190F8 was even considered after the closure of the 262 bases? One of the reasons I ask is for future reference. IF I ever CO another frame and one of my options was JU88 Vs 190F8, I would push the 190F8 without a doubt. Faster means less time in the danger zone. IF the reasoning is what you gave, then it would answer my question as to wether or not I would pick up an Axis frame under similar conditions. I don't think I would. I had hoped that this series would give some information as to the viability of the F8. The time spent putting it into the game was a good choice, but if it's never used in an S3, then how can we really judge it? Yes, blowing stuff up is fun, but it's only half the fun... |
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| Author: | Hawk [ Sat Feb 15, 2014 1:18 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: The FW190F8 Vs JU88. A question for the Luftwaffe guys.. |
Madcat wrote: One of the reasons I ask is for future reference. IF I ever CO another frame and one of my options was JU88 Vs 190F8, I would push the 190F8 without a doubt. Yes, blowing stuff up is fun, but it's only half the fun... My question to you Madcat is if you CO frame, do you want results? Seems to me you don't grasp the end game. Blowing stuff up is what we do. We are not jabo pilots, we are bomber pilots and to us, closing bases is getting the job done. Swanee and his crew do an outstanding job protecting us against all odds. I don't tell him how to fly his fighters or what to take because he knows what he doing. Having a good escort like in RL WWII was important for success of the mission. If you don't care about the results, well then that is what you would get forcing us to into a plane which the guys aren't good in. A good Frame CO takes into account the talents he has at his disposal. I would never put the 352nd in bombers because they are really good in their fighters and that would be a stupid move to make. |
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| Author: | swanee [ Sat Feb 15, 2014 2:12 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: The FW190F8 Vs JU88. A question for the Luftwaffe guys.. |
Hey Madcat Didn't take it any other way than that you were curious. No offense ever taken. Basically it's what Hawk referred to, it would be like asking the 352nd to jump into B17s for the greater good of the mission. |
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